S/o coupons/middle class

amother

Scarlet

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 1:25 pm

amother DarkOrange wrote:

As someone who came from kind of middle class earnings (80-100k for family of 8BH) to less than half of that, let me tell you, I'd rather be middle class.
It is hard relying on food stamps to last through the month. It is hard going with children to the department of health to bring in yet another form for energy assistance and having the accompanying children (some of whom are not in school because there's no money for them to be in school, others because they are not able to go to school and I had to quit my job to stay home with them) ask what is that narcan vending machine. It is hard knowing that those ripped pants can't be replaced unless we find some non ripped ones in the gmach or find someone giving some away. It is hard wondering if the mortgage will be paid.
However, it is a real and true struggle for the middle class. Because you have a "decent" job, it's an automatic assumption that tuition is not a burden to you, after you've paid mortgage, bought food and clothes, etc.

Umm, middle class go through those struggles too. We have been a month behind in mortgage for a long time (we have a small house). and many months in utilities.it was either pay utilities or eat. Just got tax refund (albeit small) and are trying to pay back. I don’t have extra money to buy clothes or get energy assistance for my house. And btw, im not wondering if the mortgage will be paid, im davening to Hashem that he help us pay it although on paper there is absolutely no way for it to work out

amother

↑ Stonewash

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 1:57 pm

amother Rose wrote:

They are getting tzedakah. We can BH manage on our own so we only buy what we actually need. They get tzedakah so they don't get to choose.

so then it gets in to the sticky thing of I would feel kind of bad telling my kids that their friends parents aren't taking care of their friends financially and relying on tzedakah. it's one thing to say b"H so in so has been matzliach financially and can afford really nice. it's another thing to say, yeah a large percentage of your class is considered poor. I mean don't we teach our kids that tzedkaha goes to poor people who unfortunately aren't able to manage on their own. It creates pretty awkward conversations... especially if their friends don't seem to be living on any lower a standard of living.
I can tell you that my 9 year old is very anti programs... what she's seeing doesn't make any sense to her and I don't actually have a good explanation why a large percentage of her class gets free lunch but she doesn't. I know this thread isn't about programs but it's the same mentality. the middle class is the ones getting squeezed.

amother

Latte

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 2:34 pm

amother Lime wrote:

I hope this doesn’t derail the thread, and I know many will not agree.
But sometimes I feel the same about organizations that help Kallahs.. I completely understand the need for these organizations to help Kallahs who cannot afford basics for their new married life, and they should absolutely get what they need.
But sometimes I wonder if what they give Kallahs up the standards as well.
I didn’t get married with a set of China, a ton of small appliances microwaves etc, numerous sets of towels etc etc
It’s like saying this is what you need to be happy when your setting up a home
And it’s not true, you can be happy with the basics and the rest of it, you pay for yourself, use your gift money or get second hand, like I and many of my friends had to do, Because we didn’t qualify for the organizations, but our parents couldn’t afford to get us everything that our rich friends were getting.
But perhaps I’m wrong here, and the standard has been raised and organizations need to help people meet that standard…
I don’t know..

As someone who got a lot of help from an amazing kallah gemach, I couldn’t agree more with this post!

Things that I needed, I was and am very grateful to have. I have a tremendous amount of hakaras hatov to the incredible baalei chesed who run these programs, and I am sincerely grateful.

The thing that bugged me was being given a hard time about declining items we didn’t need. A lot of stuff I got secondhand, or had accumulated over the time that I was single, or I got the Walmart brand (things like silverware, dishes etc). So BH there were many things that I did not need when I was engaged and I told the organizations that I was declining those items and would rather they go to someone who legitimately needed them.

The PUSH-BACK!! that I got - seriously! DH and I were pressured and pressured and pressured and given mussar that we “shouldn’t be thinking about what other couples/kallahs might need” and that we should sell some of our (already acquired) stuff on eBay and get the free items the gemach was offering when we didn’t need them. Eg I got secondhand furniture in good condition from a good friend who moved out of the country. No, I did not need to be told to sell it on eBay so I can get a free set of whatever furniture the gemach managers told me we “needed” so we could be “normal” because ”every chassan and kallah need” this particular (high-end, fancy) item. Can't Believe It

Helping people with legitimate needs is 100% valid. Trying to convince people that they “need” things that are completely extra? Um, not so much IMO.

↑ TravelHearter ↓

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 3:47 pm

amother Arcticblue wrote:

I'm disappointed that this thread got derailed and turned into the exact same thing as the original thread. I thought OP made a very good point.

Thank you:)
Posters have been saying recently that OPs don’t get to ‘own’ their thread so I’ve just sat back and watched the conversation become the same exact one as before. Everyone has a good point, let’s not keep saying them over and over unless there’s something we can actively to do to change it. Now we can just focus on working on ourselves.

amother

↑ Ultramarine ↓

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 3:55 pm

TravelHearter wrote:

Starting a thread saying that it's jealousy & not fargin-ing, when in reality it's a real issue in the community of a skewed system, is tone deaf and just rude.
Working on ourselves doesn't come in here & won't take away the struggle of the middle class. We're allowed to vent about & point out valid issues in the community.

amother

Teal

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 3:57 pm

TravelHearter wrote:

I think this thread has shown that the middle class isn't crying it's not fair. The middle class is not overwhelmingly feeling jealous. The middle class is simply feeling backed into an impossible corner by having the standards raised on them. They're saying - we have a problem with these programs, not because they benefit you and not me, but because they are actively hurting me.

I'd love to be part of a solution. But that solution isn't to focus on working on myself. I'm open to other, practical suggestions.

amother

↑ Linen ↓

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 4:17 pm

amother Lime wrote:

Perhaps there is something that can be done to change the situation, as many posters mentioned, maybe these well- meaning organizations (and I am saying this sincerely they do very important work) can be informed that what they are doing is unintentionally raising standards.
This isn’t about jealousy, this is about seeing a problem in our culture and trying to fix it.
Does anyone else have any any other ideas?

I would love to encourage as many organizations as possible to adapt a "universal but very basic" model

Meaning anyone who comes can get matza, chicken, potatoes, grape juice. No meat. No dairy. No snacks. No wine.
Rather than tons and tons with high standards for some, instead bare basics for everyone.

Socks/tights/underwear/1 Tottini Shabbos outfit for every.

Those who don't need, won't come for chicken or underwear.
Those who are going away, getting gifted by others, etc won't either come.

Its not glamorous to just give out chicken, or just give out tights and Tottini. But it does make sure that every child and every family has at least the bare basics.

amother

↑ Bone ↓

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 4:20 pm

amother Linen wrote:

I would love to encourage as many organizations as possible to adapt a "universal but very basic" model

Meaning anyone who comes can get matza, chicken, potatoes, grape juice. No meat. No dairy. No snacks. No wine.
Rather than tons and tons with high standards for some, instead bare basics for everyone.

Socks/tights/underwear/1 Tottini Shabbos outfit for every.

Those who don't need, won't come for chicken or underwear.
Those who are going away, getting gifted by others, etc won't either come.

It’s not glamorous to just give out chicken, or just give out tights and Tottini. But it does make sure that every child and every family has at least the bare basics.

Organization don’t contribute money. Donors do. Organizations are usually just the conduit for those donations to flow through to recipients. You would have to convince donors that universal essentials for all are a priority over targeted giving.

amother

Charcoal ↓

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 4:31 pm

amother Linen wrote:

Just FYI, I've received help for Pesach from an organization and it's been something like chicken, eggs, grape juice, potatoes, onions, apples. Really just the basics. I'm sure that there are organizations that give meat and wine (!!) but I assume the majority operate the way the one that I got from does.

amother

NeonPink

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 4:32 pm

amother Linen wrote:

That’s literally what you get. You obviously have never received hand outs from organizations.

amother

↑ Ultramarine ↓

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 4:36 pm

amother Charcoal wrote:

In my community, organizations give:
Cases of paper goods (plates all sizes, cups, cutlery, napkins)
Case apples, oranges, potatoes, onions, carrots, avocado, eggs, grape juice, seltzer, water
Matzah
Case snacks case baby fingers
Case leben, yogurt, cottage cheese, sour cream, cream cheese, sliced cheese
Sugar, potato starch, salt, nuts, spices, oil all in big quantities
Case chicken
4 red meat
Fish
Everyone that's in kollel or chinuch is automatically eligible for this, regardless of their income, family size, whether they're home for pesach or not, no questions ask.
Please don't tell me that this makes sense.

amother

↑ Linen ↓

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 4:37 pm

amother NeonPink wrote:

That’s literally what you get. You obviously have never received hand outs from organizations.

I have gotten from Tomchei Shabbos in the past
Matza
Chicken
4 roasts+ chopped meat+ beef cubes
Potatoes
Onions apples oranges
Grape juice
Apple juice
Seltzer
Case wine
Box of snack bags
Box of lady fingers
Case of leben
Case of yogurt
Salmon and gefilte fish
Sliced and shredded cheese
3 boxes of assorted spices, groceries, snacks
Assorted cases of pans, plates, bowls, cups, etc.

Don't get me wrong. I appreciated it immensely and thank them.
But that's nowhere near bare basics. And we made a tiny bit more and got removed from that list

amother

↑ Ultramarine ↓

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 4:39 pm

amother Linen wrote:

The craziest part of this is that kollel/chinuch automatically qualify regardless of their income/lifestyle & regardless if they need it or not.

amother

Smokey

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 4:48 pm

TravelHearter wrote:

Can I ask everyone a question?
What is with the lack of ‘fargining’??
I 100% understand the difficulty of being middle class, barely affording life, and not getting coupons/help that kollel/chinuch families seem to get this time of year.
Post away, vent, try to find solutions.
But each of these posts has an undercurrent of jealousy and ‘it’s not fair’ towards those that do get these things. And each post turns into a bashing thread. Yes, it may not be fair, but why let it effect you?? You can have a hard time financially without getting any sort of benefits, or you can have a hard time financially and be jealous and complain and look down on others. Which seems to be better?
Every time I see one of these posts I commiserate at the beginning of the post, and then once I start reading through it I just leave the thread because it’s so negative. I get it. It’s hard. We are all going through the financial pressure and crunch. But how is pointing fingers and complaining about others helping you??

When lots of people get free stuff shopkeepers raise prices for paying customers ...because supply and demand. Possibly, the "poor" population should not flaunt their goodies.

amother

↑ Bone ↓

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 4:51 pm

amother Ultramarine wrote:

The craziest part of this is that kollel/chinuch automatically qualify regardless of their income/lifestyle & regardless if they need it or not.

No one is supposed to be taking if they don’t need, kollel or not. If only people weren’t focused on what they “qualify for” and can get from tzedaka but rather on what they really need. There is far too much of a “what can I get out of them” attitude that I am hearing. All the years we were kollel we never took even when the going was REALLY tight. We weren’t raised to be takers.

Ask not what gemachs and tzedakas can do for you….

amother

↑ Ultramarine

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 4:52 pm

amother Bone wrote:

This is unfortunately so true.
You are the exception to the rule by not taking what you were technically eligible for.