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Forum
-> Household Management
-> Finances
amother
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 Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:16 am
| notshanarishona wrote: | | The lack of fargining comes in part from asked to donate for things that are “necessities “ for “poor people “ who live on higher standards than I do and for things I can’t afford for my own kids. |
I fargin everyone with my whole heart.
I just think that the systems need to be worked out better so that more people get help & those that really need it but aren't in kollel or chinuch, shouldn't have to beg and plead and lose their dignity over it.
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amother
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Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:20 am
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Theres no one 'system' that needs to be worked out better. Theres a bunch of people and organizations that want to help in any way that they can and theyre human and don't have the most perfect way of finding exactly who needs what. It's very very hard for recipients AND organizations when they have to first audit somebody's finances before giving.
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amother
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Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:23 am
| amother Arcticblue wrote: | | Theres no one 'system' that needs to be worked out better. Theres a bunch of people and organizations that want to help in any way that they can and theyre human and don't have the most perfect way of finding exactly who needs what. It's very very hard for recipients AND organizations when they have to first audit somebody's finances before giving. |
Well, they do ask for financial information of working families or automatically disqualify them. They should do the same to kollel & chinuch families & include any support they're getting. Kollel/chinuch doesn't mean that one is poor.
They can also not give cases of food and paper goods to families that aren't making pesach. It doesn't make sense.
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amother
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Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:23 am
| amother Ultramarine wrote: | I fargin everyone with my whole heart.
I just think that the systems need to be worked out better so that more people get help & those that really need it but aren't in kollel or chinuch, shouldn't have to beg and plead and lose their dignity over it. |
I mentioned this on another thread.
There should be a baseline streamlined for all tzedaka funds.
First everyone has matza, wine, chicken
Next everyone has meat
Next tights, underwear, shells
Shoes
Clothes
Extras
Meaning no one gets tzedaka money for clothes until everyone has matza and wine.
No one gets tzedaka for a second outfit until everyone has 1 outfit.
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amother
DarkOrange
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Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:24 am
As someone who came from kind of middle class earnings (80-100k for family of 8BH) to less than half of that, let me tell you, I'd rather be middle class.
It is hard relying on food stamps to last through the month. It is hard going with children to the department of health to bring in yet another form for energy assistance and having the accompanying children (some of whom are not in school because there's no money for them to be in school, others because they are not able to go to school and I had to quit my job to stay home with them) ask what is that narcan vending machine. It is hard knowing that those ripped pants can't be replaced unless we find some non ripped ones in the gmach or find someone giving some away. It is hard wondering if the mortgage will be paid.
However, it is a real and true struggle for the middle class. Because you have a "decent" job, it's an automatic assumption that tuition is not a burden to you, after you've paid mortgage, bought food and clothes, etc.
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amother
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Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:25 am
| amother Linen wrote: | I mentioned this on another thread.
There should be a baseline streamlined for all tzedaka funds.
First everyone has matza, wine, chicken
Next everyone has meat
Next tights, underwear, shells
Shoes
Clothes
Extras
Meaning no one gets tzedaka money for clothes until everyone has matza and wine.
No one gets tzedaka for a second outfit until everyone has 1 outfit. |
Exactly
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amother
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Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:27 am
| amother DarkOrange wrote: | As someone who came from kind of middle class earnings (80-100k for family of 8BH) to less than half of that, let me tell you, I'd rather be middle class.
It is hard relying on food stamps to last through the month. It is hard going with children to the department of health to bring in yet another form for energy assistance and having the accompanying children (some of whom are not in school because there's no money for them to be in school, others because they are not able to go to school and I had to quit my job to stay home with them) ask what is that narcan vending machine. It is hard knowing that those ripped pants can't be replaced unless we find some non ripped ones in the gmach or find someone giving some away. It is hard wondering if the mortgage will be paid.
However, it is a real and true struggle for the middle class. Because you have a "decent" job, it's an automatic assumption that tuition is not a burden to you, after you've paid mortgage, bought food and clothes, etc. |
Many middle class families go through the same struggles as the bolded.
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amother
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Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:33 am
| amother Ultramarine wrote: | | Well, they do ask for financial information of working families or automatically disqualify them. They should do the same to kollel & chinuch families & include any support they're getting. Kollel/chinuch doesn't mean that one is poor. |
Some people just don’t get it. It has nothing to do with need per se. Everyone recognizes that some working families can be poorer than kollel/ chinuch families.
Those sponsoring kollel/chinuch families do so because they want a share of the zechus in their learning and Torah teaching. That self interest motivates them to donate their hard earned money to subsidize chinuch/kollel families. It’s an investment, and an eternal one at that.
Sure poor working families are a good tzedaka cause, as are special needs kids, chai lifeline, and others. But comparing poor working families to kollel/ chinuch families based strictly on need and complaining about how donors choose to share their money, demanding to be prioritized over kollel/chinuch is presumptuous and is comparing apples to oranges.
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amother
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Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:37 am
| amother Bone wrote: | Some people just don’t get it. It has nothing to do with need per se. Everyone recognizes that some working families can be poorer than kollel/ chinuch families.
Those sponsoring kollel/chinuch families do so because they want a share of the zechus in their learning and Torah teaching. That self interest motivates them to donate their hard earned money to subsidize chinuch/kollel families. It’s an investment, and an eternal one at that.
Sure poor working families are a good tzedaka cause, as are special needs kids, chai lifeline, and others. But comparing poor working families to kollel/ chinuch families based strictly on need and complaining about how donors choose to share their money, demanding to be prioritized over kollel/chinuch is presumptuous and is comparing apples to oranges. |
Except theyre not being honest in the campaigns and ads.
A campaign to support kollel yungeleit and get the zchus of their Torah is wonderful.
But when they run a campaign about aniyei ircha, that everyone deserves wine and a new dress, then you call up and get refused because youre not kollel- well thats collecting the money through lies. The donors arent being told the truth.
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amother
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Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:39 am
| amother Bone wrote: | Some people just don’t get it. It has nothing to do with need per se. Everyone recognizes that some working families can be poorer than kollel/ chinuch families.
Those sponsoring kollel/chinuch families do so because they want a share of the zechus in their learning and Torah teaching. That self interest motivates them to donate their hard earned money to subsidize chinuch/kollel families. It’s an investment, and an eternal one at that.
Sure poor working families are a good tzedaka cause, as are special needs kids, chai lifeline, and others. But comparing poor working families to kollel/ chinuch families based strictly on need and complaining about how donors choose to share their money, demanding to be prioritized over kollel/chinuch is presumptuous and is comparing apples to oranges. |
I'm not really talking about private donors.
I'm talking about community organizations that refuse to help the middle class & automatically help kollel/chinuch families, regardless of their financial situation & regardless if they're being home for yom tov.
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amother
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Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:45 am
| amother Ultramarine wrote: | I'm not really talking about private donors.
I'm talking about community organizations that refuse to help the middle class & automatically help kollel/chinuch families, regardless of their financial situation & regardless if they're being home for yom tov. |
Most community organizations don’t have money falling out of the sky into their coffers. Who are the major donors to these community organizations? Do they fund the organization with the goal of strictly need based aid , and the community organization is thwarting their wishes, or do they want the zechus of supporting Torah and intend to prioritize these families?
In my experience, major donors to community organizations are very involved with the direction and priorities of the organization, and the criteria for selecting recipients.
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amother
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Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:47 am
| amother Bone wrote: | | Who are the major donors to these community organizations? Do they fund the organization with the goal of strictly need based aid , and the community organization is thwarting their wishes, or do they want the zechus of supporting Torah and intend to prioritize these families? |
The donors are the food & goods brands & the organizations make massive campaigns year round for funding.
I'm sure they have private donors, but those that want to support torah, generally
do so privately & not through community organizations.
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amother
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Wed, Apr 03 2024, 11:00 am
| amother Ultramarine wrote: | The donors are the food & goods brands & the organizations make massive campaigns year round for funding.
I'm sure they have private donors, but those that want to support torah, generally
do so privately & not through community organizations. |
When for example the Herzog family/Kedem makes a food donation to Tomchei Shabbos they know they are supporting a mix of klei kodesh and working people, mostly working people. When they donate to Chasdei Lev they know it is going strictly to Klei Kodesh. No one is pulling the wool over their eyes. They are fully aware of whom they are choosing to support.
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amother
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Wed, Apr 03 2024, 11:17 am
| amother Bone wrote: | | When for example the Herzog family/Kedem makes a food donation to Tomchei Shabbos they know they are supporting a mix of klei kodesh and working people, mostly working people. When they donate to Chasdei Lev they know it is going strictly to Klei Kodesh. No one is pulling the wool over their eyes. They are fully aware of whom they are choosing to support. |
What about the smaller donors?
The ones who see the ads in the papers or the phone calls.
Kimcha DPischa- no child in City Y should be without matza and wine on pesach. I gave for years. Then a downturn one year and I couldn't afford matza because I needed to pay the mortgage, and they said "sorry klai kodesh only".
If im not Herzog, I dont have a right to honesty?
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mig100
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Wed, Apr 03 2024, 11:21 am
| amother Linen wrote: | What about the smaller donors?
The ones who see the ads in the papers or the phone calls.
Kimcha DPischa- no child in City Y should be without matza and wine on pesach. I gave for years. Then a downturn one year and I couldn't afford matza because I needed to pay the mortgage, and they said "sorry klai kodesh only".
If im not Herzog, I dont have a right to honesty? |
Thats horrible.
I hope your situation improved a million times over and you were repaid for your generosity
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amother
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Wed, Apr 03 2024, 11:25 am
| amother Linen wrote: | What about the smaller donors?
The ones who see the ads in the papers or the phone calls.
Kimcha DPischa- no child in City Y should be without matza and wine on pesach. I gave for years. Then a downturn one year and I couldn't afford matza because I needed to pay the mortgage, and they said "sorry klai kodesh only".
If im not Herzog, I dont have a right to honesty? |
Ouch. I’ve never heard of a citywide kimcha dipischa that was klei kodesh only. I’ve spent time in several cities across the US, and in every single instance widows, divorcees, struggling working families, and the like were all beneficiaries.
Perhaps your city’s kimcha dipischa ran out of regular funds and were distributing additional funds that donors had earmarked for klei kodesh only, as is certainly the donors right?
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amother
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Wed, Apr 03 2024, 11:36 am
| amother Bone wrote: | Ouch. I’ve never heard of a citywide kimcha dipischa that was klei kodesh only. I’ve spent time in several cities across the US, and in every single instance widows, divorcees, struggling working families, and the like were all beneficiaries.
Perhaps your city’s kimcha dipischa ran out of regular funds and were distributing additional funds that donors had earmarked for klei kodesh only, as is certainly the donors right? |
Id like to hope that year was an anamoly.
I want to point out. You keep on mentioning the dobors. But heres thing. If a campaign goes public, every single person who donates a quarter becomes a donor and has to right be informed.
If a fundraiser doesnt specify "klai kodesh" "widows" "divorcees" then to start making cheshbonos even if the big donors say so is wrong.
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amother
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Wed, Apr 03 2024, 12:05 pm
| amother Linen wrote: | Except theyre not being honest in the campaigns and ads.
A campaign to support kollel yungeleit and get the zchus of their Torah is wonderful.
But when they run a campaign about aniyei ircha, that everyone deserves wine and a new dress, then you call up and get refused because youre not kollel- well thats collecting the money through lies. The donors arent being told the truth. |
Did you personally apply and was refused help?
If you're not talking about yourself do you actually know families that are struggling that applied and were refused help?
Because I don't think it works that way.
Op of the other thread also said its degrading to ask a rav and to provide income information to get help...
So exactly are organizations supposed to help?
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amother
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Wed, Apr 03 2024, 12:08 pm
| amother Dodgerblue wrote: | Did you personally apply and was refused help?
If you're not talking about yourself do you actually know families that are struggling that applied and were refused help?
Because I don't think it works that way.
Op of the other thread also said its degrading to ask a rav and to provide income information to get help...
So exactly are organizations supposed to help? |
Yes I personally applied and was refused because im not kollel.
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amother
Aquamarine
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Wed, Apr 03 2024, 12:09 pm
| amother Linen wrote: | | Yes I personally applied and was refused because im not kollel. | Why kollel? Doesn't it go by income?
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