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Forum
-> Parenting our children
-> Teenagers and Older children
amother
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 Wed, Feb 21 2024, 2:09 pm
Research what Iceland is like in terms of safety, and discuss what if situations. Phone calls at certain time periods etc. If she stays in public areas that are safe I don’t see why not.
If you would let your son go than the only additional issue is safety and that can easily be dealt with.
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amother
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Wed, Feb 21 2024, 2:11 pm
| amother Jean wrote: | Research what Iceland is like in terms of safety, and discuss what if situations. Phone calls at certain time periods etc. If she stays in public areas that are safe I don’t see why not.
If you would let your son go than the only additional issue is safety and that can easily be dealt with. |
It's not an additional issue, it's the whole issue! And in a strange place scary things can happen and it can be hard to figure out what to do.
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amother
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Wed, Feb 21 2024, 2:14 pm
| amother Navy wrote: | | It's not an additional issue, it's the whole issue! And in a strange place scary things can happen and it can be hard to figure out what to do. |
I meant additional, because some people have an issue with exposing their children. They feel that if they control their kids they will be drummer. (I’m chassidish)
Safety can be dealt with. You obviously always have a risk, even in your hometown. But like others pointed out, how savvy is she? I do think that the safety issue can be managed. A 30 year old women would go. Technically they can both be the same beaten and raped.
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amother
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Wed, Feb 21 2024, 2:15 pm
| Genius wrote: | | I’m still wondering if your husband has no opinion. If I’d be deciding something like this, there would be a discussion with my husband first. |
Just saying, maybe there isn't one?
I'm wondering if this Op isn't the 18 year old she talks about
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amother
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Wed, Feb 21 2024, 2:17 pm
| amother Jean wrote: | I meant additional, because some people have an issue with exposing their children. They feel that if they control their kids they will be drummer. (I’m chassidish)
Safety can be dealt with. You obviously always have a risk, even in your hometown. But like others pointed out, how savvy is she? I do think that the safety issue can be managed. A 30 year old women would go. Technically they can both be the same beaten and raped. |
Technically yes, but an 18 year old girl often projects a certain kind of naviete/ vulnerability that an older woman does not. Especially if she is somewhat sheltered as the smartphone piece of things here seems to suggest.
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amother
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Wed, Feb 21 2024, 2:19 pm
| amother Jean wrote: | I meant additional, because some people have an issue with exposing their children. They feel that if they control their kids they will be drummer. (I’m chassidish)
Safety can be dealt with. You obviously always have a risk, even in your hometown. But like others pointed out, how savvy is she? I do think that the safety issue can be managed. A 30 year old women would go. Technically they can both be the same beaten and raped. |
An 18 year old girl is of much greater risk of being beaten/raped/stalked.... then a 30 year old woman. Especially a frum 18 year old girl that hasn't been out in the world yet. She's way more vulnerable.
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amother
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Wed, Feb 21 2024, 2:32 pm
| amother Jean wrote: | I meant additional, because some people have an issue with exposing their children. They feel that if they control their kids they will be drummer. (I’m chassidish)
Safety can be dealt with. You obviously always have a risk, even in your hometown. But like others pointed out, how savvy is she? I do think that the safety issue can be managed. A 30 year old women would go. Technically they can both be the same beaten and raped. |
I take issue with how you say control. Not being OK with an 18 year old flying off on their own does not mean the parent is controlling them, it means the the parent worries for them.
I think most teens living at home are sheltered to some degree regardless of which sect they're from.
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Genius
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Wed, Feb 21 2024, 2:40 pm
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To me independence comes together with responsibility. A teenager who lives off mom’s wallet and lives in mom’s house is not “completely” independent, even if they’re eighteen and can technically choose to go to a faraway country.
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amother
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Wed, Feb 21 2024, 2:43 pm
Op, have you talked about this with the mother of the friend who would be going? I think you both would know your children better than we do.
Some of the responses here seem pretty absurd. No sleeping in hotels? That sounds like an odd rule.
Also, who has been giving you a hard time about your choice. Is this someone who's opinion you usually respect?
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amother
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Wed, Feb 21 2024, 2:44 pm
| Genius wrote: | | To me independence comes together with responsibility. A teenager who lives off mom’s wallet and lives in mom’s house is not “completely” independent, even if they’re eighteen and can technically choose to go to a faraway country. |
There are married adults who live completely off their parent's wallet as well, but they're seen as independent adults.
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amother
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Wed, Feb 21 2024, 2:47 pm
| amother Wine wrote: | | There are married adults who live completely off their parent's wallet as well, but they're seen as independent adults. |
They are 1000% not independent when their parents know of every purchase and everything that goes on in their lives.
It's cool to call yourself independent but face facts, as long as you're supported you're NOT independent
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amother
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Wed, Feb 21 2024, 2:49 pm
| amother Apple wrote: | 1. You mentioned paying for her trip.
2. You also mentioned about you yourself (not her in the previous post) not being happy about her needing a smartphone on the trip.
If she was truly an independent adult, neither of these factors would be there. It just wouldn't even have come up. |
I'm agreeing to pay for her trip bec I have the means so why shouldn't I? Ever heard of a parent giving a house to their 35 yr old child? is that bec he's not independent? No! just bec they have the money, let the child enjoy it...
and in terms of the smartphone - I understand why she needs it bec it's hard to travel otherwise. I'm not happy that she'll have it for the same reason I wouldn't be happy if I have internet in my pocket wherever I"m going. Would I when I travel? yes I would. but I still wouldn't be happy abt it. I don't think this takes away from her independence.
Last edited by amother on Wed, May 15 2024, 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother
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Wed, Feb 21 2024, 3:02 pm
| amother Navy wrote: | | Technically yes, but an 18 year old girl often projects a certain kind of naviete/ vulnerability that an older woman does not. Especially if she is somewhat sheltered as the smartphone piece of things here seems to suggest. |
I agree with this 💯. However not new true for all 18 year old girls. What I’m trying to say that the issue of safety I affected by naïveté, confidence, and security. All these things can be learned and practices put in place to manage it.
That being said if she has no experience on the internet I would assume she has no clue how the non Jewish world interacts and I don’t allow my daughter/son go.
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LovesHashem
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Wed, Feb 21 2024, 3:05 pm
| amother Jean wrote: | I meant additional, because some people have an issue with exposing their children. They feel that if they control their kids they will be drummer. (I’m chassidish)
Safety can be dealt with. You obviously always have a risk, even in your hometown. But like others pointed out, how savvy is she? I do think that the safety issue can be managed. A 30 year old women would go. Technically they can both be the same beaten and raped. |
It's about being savvy, not naive, mature, resourceful, smart etc. Some girls don't even know what Sx or rape is. I've met 18 year old girls who told me they don't understand why they can't walk alone at night, like who kidnaps an adult?
Even those who know, are they savvy enough to notice if something is off in another language or if someone is following them? An 18 year old generally doesn't have that much life experience....
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amother
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Wed, Feb 21 2024, 3:06 pm
| amother Jean wrote: | I agree with this 💯. However not new true for all 18 year old girls. What I’m trying to say that the issue of safety I affected by naïveté, confidence, and security. All these things can be learned and practices put in place to manage it.
That being said if she has no experience on the internet I would assume she has no clue how the non Jewish world interacts and I don’t allow my daughter/son go. |
ofc she has... she has her own laptop just doesn't want to have a smartphone.
Last edited by amother on Wed, May 15 2024, 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sequoia
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Wed, Feb 21 2024, 3:16 pm
| LovesHashem wrote: | It's about being savvy, not naive, mature, resourceful, smart etc. Some girls don't even know what Sx or rape is. I've met 18 year old girls who told me they don't understand why they can't walk alone at night, like who kidnaps an adult?
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Even if they’re not aware of rape, they’re aware of mugging and murder, presumably.
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Chayalle
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Wed, Feb 21 2024, 3:23 pm
I had/had adult DD's who went on vacation with friends, slept in hotels. They don't have to get married to start living.
18 is a little young, and it's important to know if they are indeed savvy enough to take care of themselves and be safe. Other than that, I don't see the issue.....this business of girls not being able to handle themselves sounds infantilizing, to be honest.
My girls did start with closer destinations, like Miami or Orlando, or New England area, though they did go to EY which is a separate category....but they also went farther as they got older and had different opportunities.....Europe, the Carribean, etc....
I would want to hear your DD's plan, OP, and her itinerary, where she's staying, how she's getting around, what they are eating, etc...
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amother
Firebrick
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Wed, Feb 21 2024, 3:24 pm
What circles are you in?
In more modern circles kids aged 17-18 travel Europe by themselves…
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LovesHashem
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Wed, Feb 21 2024, 3:26 pm
| sequoia wrote: | | Even if they’re not aware of rape, they’re aware of mugging and murder, presumably. |
Yeah but they don't wear expensive jewlery or clothing why would anyone mug them and not a business man or something? Who thinks a young 18 yr old naive girl is full of money and will get murdered for it?
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Genius
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Wed, Feb 21 2024, 3:29 pm
| Chayalle wrote: | I had/had adult DD's who went on vacation with friends, slept in hotels. They don't have to get married to start living.
18 is a little young, and it's important to know if they are indeed savvy enough to take care of themselves and be safe. Other than that, I don't see the issue.....this business of girls not being able to handle themselves sounds infantilizing, to be honest.
My girls did start with closer destinations, like Miami or Orlando, or New England area, though they did go to EY which is a separate category....but they also went farther as they got older and had different opportunities.....Europe, the Carribean, etc....
I would want to hear your DD's plan, OP, and her itinerary, where she's staying, how she's getting around, what they are eating, etc... |
These details make a very big difference. We're discussing an eighteen year old who's presumably quite sheltered, boarding a plane right off her 12th grade school bus here. Not the same at all.
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