Complete independence for 18 year old

amother

Indigo

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:18 pm

I'd say "let" her, even if you don't like it, because she legally can anyway.

A jewish parent should not hit a child above bar/bat mitzvah (back when hitting kids under was common) because the older child would be tempted to hit back which would be a sin (kavod av veem), so the parent hitting in the 1st place was putting a stumbking block.

Not a rav, but I'd say the modern version is not to tell your 18+ year olds they can't do things like travel alone, because they'll be tempted to do it anyway and then they're still doing it but also possibly violating kibud av veem.

amother

↑ Lavender ↓

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:19 pm

amother Brickred wrote:

Lol at the hysteria. Iceland is one of the safest countries in the world. It's not like she's going backpacking through some high conflict country. Also, 18 is an adult, so ues, it would be controlling to tell her she can't (though you could choose not to pay for it. As an adult, she can figure out a way to pay herself if she really wants independence). Now, you can certainly advise. I wouldn't travel alone-alone, but with a friend or two is perfectly safe. Especially to a normal, first world country.

No, it's absolutely not controlling for parents to not allow a 12th grader (that lives at home, doesn't work or contribute to the household financially), to travel alone to Iceland. Being 18 doesn't mean that they get to do whatever they want.

↑ Genius ↓

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:19 pm

nicejewishgal wrote:

Would you not sleep in a hotel yourself either? If you would, why wouldn't you let your daughter?

You don’t think there’s difference between a 18 year old and a 40 year old married woman?

amother

Yarrow

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:19 pm

My daughter started out will locations that had a Jewish presence. Like Switzerland and Italy. By the time she was 23 she started going to more exotic places.
Is your daughter mature enough to handle an emergency for instance someone breaks a leg?

amother

Lightblue ↓

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:19 pm

I guess I'm the outlier here. DD traveled with a friend or two to various countries starting when she was about 18, I don't see what the big deal is. She's super responsible, had a phone, left me her itinerary... she had wonderful experiences! She's now married with a toddler and has a lot less opportunity to travel, I'm so glad she was able to do some beforehand.

↑ Genius ↓

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:20 pm

amother Indigo wrote:

This makes sense when discussing whether she can visit her friend down the block. Mom is still funding her independent daughter so she isn’t going anywhere without permission.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:21 pm

Genius wrote:

If she’s independent why are you funding it?
I wouldn’t let my daughter travel to Iceland by herself as an 18 year old. Independence doesn’t have to mean leaving them hefker.

I'm funding it bec she really wants to go and I don't have a problem giving it to her.

and why would you say hefker? whenever she does something on her own is that considered hefker? that's life, isn't it? you grow up and spread your wings...

Last edited by amother on Wed, May 15 2024, 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

↑ Lavender ↓

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:21 pm

amother Indigo wrote:

The daughter is expecting her parents to fund her trip. That's not independence & the parents are not supposed to fund it if they don't want to.

amother

Caramel ↓

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:22 pm

I don't think an 18 year old is savvy enough to deal with everything. Two guys would worry me less from a safety perspective than two girls would. That's just the sad truth. Same way I don't take as many risks as dh does, like being in isolated or dark places alone.

amother

↑ Lavender ↓

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:23 pm

nicejewishgal wrote:

Of course she can and should do things on her own. But it needs to make sense & be within reason.
But it seems like your mind is made up. Why did you start the thread?

amother

↑ Lavender ↓

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:24 pm

amother Caramel wrote:

This. Especially a frum 12th grader. I don't think frum 18 year olds are savvy enough to travel to foreign countries by themselves.

amother

Foxglove ↓

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:24 pm

nicejewishgal wrote:

Would you not sleep in a hotel yourself either? If you would, why wouldn't you let your daughter?

Because to a certain extent I'm still responsible for her safety. I get that legally she's an adult but she's still living under my roof and is being supported by me, she's still dependent on me.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:24 pm

Genius wrote:

You don’t think there’s difference between a 18 year old and a 40 year old married woman?

maybe I'm more mature and have more life experience, but so is she... she's smart, she's mature, she's a good kid and really wants to go.

and no, she doesn't 'expect' me to fund it. I want to because I know how much she wants to go. and if I wouldn't have the means to, she would find a way to pay for it herself

Last edited by amother on Wed, May 15 2024, 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

↑ Brickred ↓

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:24 pm

amother Lavender wrote:

Op says she's planning to go in the summer, so after high school, and with a friend, so not actually alone. Presumably she has plans for after high school, most likely seminary, and will be in shidduchim not long after that. Why is she ready for all that, but not a trip with a friend? The only thing here is the money. Op is at perfect liberty to say she's not paying for it. But if dd comes up with the money herself, then op doesn't really have a leg to stand on. Panic about a bit of well planned travel, then we wonder why kids today are stumbling into marriage requiring all this support and handholding 🤦‍♀️

amother

↑ Dahlia ↓

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:25 pm

When we say allow, is the converse forbid or dissuade?

I would dissuade, but I don’t think you can forbid.
But I’m talking from my experience. If I make a face and tell my DD that a I don’t think it is a good idea, she will not go. She might get upset and say why not and want to understand, alleviate and argue my points until I agree that it is a fine idea, but she would not go against my blessings.

↑ Genius ↓

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:25 pm

nicejewishgal wrote:

I find the funding and independence to be a bit of a contradiction.
IMO going to a country with no Jewish presence with a friend at 18 is hefker.

amother

↑ Foxglove ↓

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:27 pm

nicejewishgal wrote:

Do you know of one mom that checks out of her 18 year old's life because they're old enough and can now spread their wings?
As I said before, if they're still living at home and rely on mom then mom still has some responsibility for their safe being regardless of age.

amother

↑ Dahlia

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:28 pm

Genius wrote:

I find the funding and independence to be a bit of a contradiction.
IMO going to a country with no Jewish presence with a friend at 18 is hefker.

And that I disagree with. She is probably looking to see the northern lights and the scenery, flora and fauna. You need to know your child. Mine is not going to bars/night clubs, drinking or meeting strangers.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:29 pm

amother Lavender wrote:

Of course she can and should do things on her own. But it needs to make sense & be within reason.
But it seems like your mind is made up. Why did you start the thread?

started it bec I got some heat. right now, I don't see what the prob is but if I find reason not to allow her, I wouldn't - and she's a great kid so if I tell her I don't let her she won't go. but on what ground can I tell I don't let her go (especially if in that case she wud pay by herself.) If I tell her she can't go - isn't that controlling. she wants to go and she's old enough to suffer the consequences of her choices (not that there should be any but just saying)
if I continue babying her, when and how would she grow up?

Last edited by amother on Wed, May 15 2024, 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total