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-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
amother
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 Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:30 pm
Here is the email they sent me:
Dear XXX & XXX,
I hope this finds you and your family well.
As you know, XXX paid $XXXX toward your child's tuition.
This reflected the Sept., Oct and Nov. tuition installments.
The tuition payments of Dec. and January have been returned by the bank.
Your owed tuition is currently $XXX.
Please advise ASAP.
Thank you and all the best,
XXX
The response I'm not sending them: (the financial department is completely separate from the regular principal and administration)
If you'd like me to advise, I'd advise you to be patient.
We are going through an even more tight period financially, and I simply do not have money to send you.
The reason why the payments were returned by the bank is that there was not money there to cover them. Please don't feel that you were singled out; the tax payments, car payments, and credit card payments were also returned by the bank for insufficient funds. Please also don't feel that you were put at the bottom of our tuition list, in the last few months I succeeded in paying just $100 to two of my children's schools.
Just today I received a notice from the utility company that if I do not pay $219 within a week, they will sent a shutoff notice. And the state of XX sent me a notice that they are charging me a fine because of the last returned payment.
The current balance in the account is $139, and this is before I buy groceries for the week.
Does that clarify things for you?
IY"H we hope that the situation will improve, and we will be able to pay our obligations to your school and to all of the other companies and schools we are indebted towards in a timely manner.
I keep a careful record of tuition owed, and will bli neder continue paying for as long as it takes. Earlier this year we finally finished paying XXX's owed tuition from the previous school two years ago (every penny of the $XX,XXX tuition fee, albeit late).
If you disagree with the situation, please do let me know how we should structure things differently so you can be paid on time.
In the meantime, I hope you appreciate that having our child as a student is an advantage to your school, even if the parents pay late. You know that XXX recently was a finalist in XXX (a national competition), one of only two who qualified from your institution.
(then I lost my temper...)
Do you really want XXX to go to a different school just because tuition payments are delayed? Do you really want to destroy their academic progress because they know the school is putting negative pressure for a situation they have no control over?
Do you really think we are hiding money from you and living like kings while withholding what we owe? I am sure that you, and all of the administration of the school, are living on a far higher standard than we are. We WANT to pay tuition. We just do not have the money yet.
I understand your modus operandi is to push parents against the wall until they humiliate themselves and beg someone to help. That's why you wait until the day before school starts so you have the upper hand to extort however much you want. Last time you got lucky that a wealthy person heard about the situation and offered to help. But we still don't know their name, did not expect them to help, and went through Gehennom for a week (with our child in limbo) when we had nowhere to turn.
For the record, I am not mochel.
If one day Hashem grants us more wealth, I can assure you that your school will not be receiving any donations from us. We will pay our obligations but not a penny more. You are just lucky that there are halachos of Lashon Hara, otherwise I would publicize the disgusting way you treat parents.
Sincerely,
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Highstrung
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Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:36 pm
This sounds so tough and I understand your anger . But I do think you should explain the situation just like you did in the beginning of your post and explain how your other bills are all affected too.
I hope someone in that office will have a heart and will understand . They may need a plan going forward .
Getting angry or emotional won’t get you anywhere , but giving the situation and transparency might.
Hatzlacha
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amother
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Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:42 pm
| Highstrung wrote: | This sounds so tough and I understand your anger . But I do think you should explain the situation just like you did in the beginning of your post and explain how your other bills are all affected too.
I hope someone in that office will have a heart and will understand . They may need a plan going forward .
Getting angry or emotional won’t get you anywhere , but giving the situation and transparency might.
Hatzlacha |
I will send them something a lot less emotional (and much shorter), but based on previous interactions I do not have any expectations that they will be understanding.
Their theory is that if you don't have the money, you should shnorr for it. You're the one who owes money. Why should THEY have to fundraise?
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amother
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Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:44 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I will send them something a lot less emotional (and much shorter), but based on previous interactions I do not have any expectations that they will be understanding.
Their theory is that if you don't have the money, you should shnorr for it. You're the one who owes money. Why should THEY have to fundraise? |
Yes that is the attitude in my child's school also. They told me I should find an older single and ask them for their maaser to pay for my son's tuition
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amother
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Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:46 pm
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Yup, never mind that they just had a successful million dollar fundraising campaign, and they know tens of people who can cut them a check for 10 or 50k. I'm lucky if I can shnorr $18 from a few friends or relatives.
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amother
Tomato
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Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:53 pm
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This sounds so hard, OP. I agree that a less emotional, more fact based approach is better. Perhaps ask if they can suggest some names of donors that you should approach to solicit funds to help pay, if they can't assist you in fundraising for your child's tuition. Telling them that you are strapped and have no one to approach isn't a solution for them. Better yet, let them share their donor list and you can start calling them too.
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amother
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Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:53 pm
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I would send the top part till where you lost your temper, it was beautifully written. Only a heartless person wouldn't be understanding of that.
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amother
Chicory
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Mon, Jan 22 2024, 5:10 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I will send them something a lot less emotional (and much shorter), but based on previous interactions I do not have any expectations that they will be understanding.
Their theory is that if you don't have the money, you should shnorr for it. You're the one who owes money. Why should THEY have to fundraise? |
They should fundraise because they probably have someone on their payroll who does fundraising.
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amother
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Mon, Jan 22 2024, 5:19 pm
I understand your pain but being a teacher in a school where they struggle to cover payroll and therefore are months behind in paying teachers leaves me scratching my head at your letter.
Do you write such letters to the grocery and expect free groceries?
Do you write such letters to the shoe stores and expect free shoes?
Do you write such letters to anyone else giving you goods or services?
Because although I hear your anger and pain I don’t feel your anger is justified. I see some entitlement too which rubs me the wrong way. Schools need to cover their expenses too! They don’t owe you a free education or teachers and principals working for you for free.
Signed,
A morah who’s underpaid in the first place on top of being paid late.
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amother
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Mon, Jan 22 2024, 5:48 pm
| amother Lightgreen wrote: | I understand your pain but being a teacher in a school where they struggle to cover payroll and therefore are months behind in paying teachers leaves me scratching my head at your letter.
Do you write such letters to the grocery and expect free groceries?
Do you write such letters to the shoe stores and expect free shoes?
Do you write such letters to anyone else giving you goods or services?
Because although I hear your anger and pain I don’t feel your anger is justified. I see some entitlement too which rubs me the wrong way. Schools need to cover their expenses too! They don’t owe you a free education or teachers and principals working for you for free.
Signed,
A morah who’s underpaid in the first place on top of being paid late. |
You're right to be frustrated. Still, there's a difference in chinuch and free groceries or clothing no?
I don't know what the solution is, it's tough, but the answer is definitely not kicking out families who can't pay the minute they're expected to.
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amother
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Mon, Jan 22 2024, 5:53 pm
| amother Whitesmoke wrote: | You're right to be frustrated. Still, there's a difference in chinuch and free groceries or clothing no?
I don't know what the solution is, it's tough, but the answer is definitely not kicking families who can't pay out. |
I’m not sure that the people working in chinuch are obligated to work for free just like the grocer isn’t. Why are they supposed to be the ones to lose out? And then how should they pay their bills? I also don’t know what the solution is but being angry at the school for expecting to be paid for the service they provide seems wrong.
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Highstrung
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Mon, Jan 22 2024, 5:53 pm
| amother Lightgreen wrote: | I understand your pain but being a teacher in a school where they struggle to cover payroll and therefore are months behind in paying teachers leaves me scratching my head at your letter.
Do you write such letters to the grocery and expect free groceries?
Do you write such letters to the shoe stores and expect free shoes?
Do you write such letters to anyone else giving you goods or services?
Because although I hear your anger and pain I don’t feel your anger is justified. I see some entitlement too which rubs me the wrong way. Schools need to cover their expenses too! They don’t owe you a free education or teachers and principals working for you for free.
Signed,
A morah who’s underpaid in the first place on top of being paid late. |
Many groceries allow a steady customer to write it down .
Utility companies are willing to do payment plans .
So do credit card companies .
Most other places are willing to work with you as the customer and take into consideration when someone is having financial difficulty. The frustration lies in the part where the other side is unwilling to bend or understand the situation and are not willing to work with you .
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amother
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Mon, Jan 22 2024, 5:55 pm
| amother Lightgreen wrote: | I understand your pain but being a teacher in a school where they struggle to cover payroll and therefore are months behind in paying teachers leaves me scratching my head at your letter.
Do you write such letters to the grocery and expect free groceries?
Do you write such letters to the shoe stores and expect free shoes?
Do you write such letters to anyone else giving you goods or services?
Because although I hear your anger and pain I don’t feel your anger is justified. I see some entitlement too which rubs me the wrong way. Schools need to cover their expenses too! They don’t owe you a free education or teachers and principals working for you for free.
Signed,
A morah who’s underpaid in the first place on top of being paid late. |
I'm not expecting free. Never have. I didn't even ask for a tuition discount.
All I asked for is patience. I'm trying to pay. But I literally don't have money now.
When I don't have money for groceries, we can eat cheaper food. We do that all the time. When I don't have money for shoes, we do without. When my teens need clothes, I only buy dresses that are under $25, even for Shabbos. We chose a cheaper place to live. I can turn off lights so the electricity bill will be lower. We get the cheaper internet even though I need it for work.
School I can't do that with. The school costs what it costs. I am not arguing with the price, but I can't say "well my child will skip the halacha class so take $1,000 off our tuition bill." My hands are tied.
So I ask for patience. Please, please, understand that I will pay you when I can. It will be late, but I will pay you. Some of my children's schools do understand this. Even the one I owe a staggering $50,000 to. This one... doesn't.
Do I write letters to anyone else? No, but they aren't writing personal letters to me either. The credit card companies I am just ignoring, as I am the state department and the IRS. I don't have what to send them. And when I do have $200, I'm very sorry to the school, but I will prioritize the heat over the tuition. Would you do differently?
Incidentally, why are you blaming the parents for the school not paying you? Can you imagine a business where the boss says, "Well, hey, company X terminated their contract with us, and we're in litigation for some money with company Y, so we're just not going to pay you this month."
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Highstrung
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Mon, Jan 22 2024, 5:55 pm
| amother Lightgreen wrote: | | I’m not sure that the people working in chinuch are obligated to work for free just like the grocer isn’t. Why are they supposed to be the ones to lose out? And then how should they pay their bills? I also don’t know what the solution is but being angry at the school for expecting to be paid for the service they provide seems wrong. |
Do Morahs and school staff not get paid because one child’s tuition can’t be paid on time? This is one person . Not the entire parent body. Everyone is working hard to pay that tuition. One family fell on hard times. Why is there no wiggle room there? She didn’t say she won’t pay. She promises to pay as soon as she can.
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amother
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Mon, Jan 22 2024, 5:57 pm
| amother Lightgreen wrote: | I understand your pain but being a teacher in a school where they struggle to cover payroll and therefore are months behind in paying teachers leaves me scratching my head at your letter.
Do you write such letters to the grocery and expect free groceries?
Do you write such letters to the shoe stores and expect free shoes?
Do you write such letters to anyone else giving you goods or services?
Because although I hear your anger and pain I don’t feel your anger is justified. I see some entitlement too which rubs me the wrong way. Schools need to cover their expenses too! They don’t owe you a free education or teachers and principals working for you for free.
Signed,
A morah who’s underpaid in the first place on top of being paid late. |
There are many differences between your examples and chinuch.
Food is possible to get from a food pantry if needed (I do).
Shoes you can get hand me downs or buy really cheap ones on target (just ordered $10 shabbos shoes for my dd)
Education- there is no way to get it cheaper unless you go to public school which is obviously not an option. And the parents have zero say in the tuition bill. If I call a service provider and cannot afford his price, then I won't use his service. I can't choose not to send my child to school just because I cannot afford the price
And the school gets to raise it a much as they want every single year with zero accountability or transparency
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imasinger
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Mon, Jan 22 2024, 6:01 pm
It often takes push to get a child into a school.
Push is also an option in a situation like this.
I'd advise getting someone influential to speak to the right people about this.
Letters aren't anywhere nearly as effective.
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amother
Natural
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Mon, Jan 22 2024, 6:03 pm
Light green, you may feel you're being underpaid, but you agreed to the salary when you took the job.
It gets me so angry when teachers complain they are underpaid. I don't know if they are or aren't. But once you sign a contract you don't get to complain about the terms you agreed to.
(That being said it is inexcusable that you aren't being paid on time. It's an issur doraisa. Seriously not okay.)
@op sending hugs, and I hope things get easier for you soon!
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amother
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Mon, Jan 22 2024, 6:04 pm
| amother Lightgreen wrote: | | I’m not sure that the people working in chinuch are obligated to work for free just like the grocer isn’t. Why are they supposed to be the ones to lose out? And then how should they pay their bills? I also don’t know what the solution is but being angry at the school for expecting to be paid for the service they provide seems wrong. |
I wasn't aware that teaches get paid more if the tuition is paid in a timely manner.
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amother
Lawngreen
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Mon, Jan 22 2024, 6:09 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | I'm not expecting free. Never have. I didn't even ask for a tuition discount. |
OP, can I suggest that you do? It sounds to me like you can use it. For who else would tuition discounts exist?
And I think schools might prefer to get less, but get it reliably, than to get more but unreliably. If you had a reduced tuition rate (at all of your kids' schools), you would likely find this a lot easier on you.
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amother
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Mon, Jan 22 2024, 6:32 pm
| amother Lawngreen wrote: | OP, can I suggest that you do? It sounds to me like you can use it. For who else would tuition discounts exist?
And I think schools might prefer to get less, but get it reliably, than to get more but unreliably. If you had a reduced tuition rate (at all of your kids' schools), you would likely find this a lot easier on you. |
The problem is that neither me nor DH work that type of job. DH has one regular income stream, but that just covers the rent. (Maybe the school feels I should give that to them first?)
After that, when money comes in, we have money. When it doesn't, we just don't spend. We used to use credit cards to cover normal groceries and tuition, but soon regretted that for obvious reasons.
So it doesn't make a difference to me if I owe the school $10,000 or $5,000. I will send them the same $250 when I can, and then $50 a few days later, and then $100 the following week. When we get a larger sum of money, I will send them $1,000. It really doesn't make a difference how much the total bill is. I'd rather just plan on paying the full amount, over a longer period of time. I do think the school deserves what they are charging.
I'm sure they'd love reliability, but I don't have it. Not for groceries and not for anything else.
A few months ago we started a project that was supposed to increase our income. But it's still not covering costs, and it ended up reducing our regular income so we're in worse shape than before.
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