Officially losing it- kids won’t sleep

amother

Black

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 2:35 am

amother Clover wrote:

Turn all the lights off in the house off. Don’t speak to them once you say goodnight. They come out you take their hand and firmly walk them back to bed. Over and over again without a word. When they start staying in their room you make a huge deal about it the next morning.

This
OP check out Supernannys stay in bed technique. It works.

amother

Bergamot

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 2:53 am

Did you try positive reinforcement?

Charts hanging on the fridge and every day they do it well they can put a sticker, and at the end of the week they get a prize. Sometimes kids respond better to positive reinforcement than negative.

amother

Raspberry

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 2:56 am

Did you try playing something for them to listen to like Marvelous Middos Machine or stories? Even if they don't fall asleep at least they can be entertained in bed and you can be free to go.

amother

Dahlia

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 7:33 am

Two questions.

First, at any point from when you start the bedtime routine to when you put them into bed, read a story, etc, do you notice either of them getting tired? Before the routine starts? Do either of them nap?

Second, have you ever tried putting them to bed at separate times, on purpose or because that's where life led that day? If so, did either kid do better when only they were in the room or were the only one awake?

anonymous mom

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 8:08 am

What time are they waking up? You need to make sure they are out of bed latest by 7:00 AM. If they're waking up later than 7:00 they may just not be tired enough until 9:00 PM.

amother

Alyssum ↓

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 8:32 am

Look up the silent return to bed technique. Or supernanny which is similar.

We also used a wakeup clock, which signals clearly when they are supposed to be in bed vs. out of it and used rewards with it. But if this won't work alone for your kids, do it with the silent return to bed technique as well.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 8:46 am

amother Bergamot wrote:

Yes. Both with a chart and with instant smaller prizes each day.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 8:47 am

amother Raspberry wrote:

Did you try playing something for them to listen to like Marvelous Middos Machine or stories? Even if they don't fall asleep at least they can be entertained in bed and you can be free to go.

Yes. They listen to the whole thing and when it’s over they’re still up and come out. Or they lose patience half way through.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 8:49 am

amother Dahlia wrote:

Neither nap. One will get tired around 5pm so definitely can be a second wind situation. How can I tweak that?

They each take about an hour to fall asleep separately- when my husband is home we’ll split up . It’s easier but not possible most days+ still takes forever.

To other poster- they are up by 7, 7:30 at the very latest. Out to playgroup/ school by 8:30 and have action packed days.

mommyhood

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 8:50 am

Sounds like they’re getting 10 hours of sleep. That’s all some of my kids needed. The whole 7 to 7 idea just doesn’t work for everyone.

amother

Honeydew ↓

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 8:53 am

amother OP wrote:

Routine, threats, bribes, hours and hours NOTHING GETS THESE KIDS TO SLEEP. It’s ruining my life and my ability to parent.

My kids are 5 and 3, they aren’t falling asleep before 9 pm. Bedtime starts 7 currently with a bath.

I don’t have time to make phone calls or decompress or eat dinner in peace or go on the treadmill or ANYTHING.

It’s come to the point where I don’t know what to do. I’m out of ideas.

Try dimming/turning off most lights in the house two hours before bedtime. I find my daughter is rly stimulated when lights are on before bed
Also look into tart cherry juice it’s like natural melatonin.

amother

Midnight ↓

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 10:09 am

I think you’re starting the routine too early. My children 5 and 3 have never gone to sleep before 8:30. I start their routine between 7:30 and 8:00 and I’m happy when they fall asleep before 9:00. Some children are not made for the early bedtime. I go to bed by 9:30, no decompressing, etc.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 10:26 am

amother Midnight wrote:

I don’t know anyone that does that. When do they wake?

They seem exhausted on this amount of sleep and when I do manage to get them to sleep before 8 they are much more rested and wake the same time.

Also, on the odd night that we are out late they still give me a hard time.

Maybe I’ll try the tart cherry. I already do some magnesium roller, lavender in their bath and very little light once it’s dark out. They have no screens etc.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 10:27 am

mommyhood wrote:

Sounds like they’re getting 10 hours of sleep. That’s all some of my kids needed. The whole 7 to 7 idea just doesn’t work for everyone.

They fell asleep closer to 10 yesterday. That’s 9 hours and they we’re exhausted this morning by drop off already…

amother

Blush ↓

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 10:28 am

amother OP wrote:

They fell asleep closer to 10 yesterday. That’s 9 hours and they we’re exhausted this morning by drop off already…

I'd say to try starting bedtime later. Bedtime at 8:30. Most of my kids go/went to sleep at 8:30 at that age.

amother

↑ Midnight

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 10:32 am

amother OP wrote:

They wake up around 7:30/ 7:45 well rested.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 10:35 am

amother Blush wrote:

I'd say to try starting bedtime later. Bedtime at 8:30. Most of my kids go/went to sleep at 8:30 at that age.

I’m hesitant to do that because they seem really tired at 7:30 + give me a really hard time going to sleep after a later night also (like if my husband is around for dinner they go to bed 8/8:30 but it’s still the same song and dance) but I’m going to try and track it more closely.

I think it’s mostly behavioral, I know a lot about parenting but I can’t seem to be able to get through to my 3 year old, the behavior is just so visceral!

amother

↑ Blush

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 10:53 am

amother OP wrote:

So maybe they need an earlier bedtime, before they become overtired.
Do you put them in together, or separately?
What's their diet like? I'd try cutting sugar as much as possible.
You can also try putting a camera in their room & maybe locking their door so they shouldn't be able to get out of the room. They'll hopefully eventually give up & stay in bed. (I know people that do this as a last resort & it works.)

amother

Pumpkin

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 11:03 am

No sage advice, just commiseration.

My 4 year old is like this.
And my husband comes home super late. No help there.

Story tapes are great but they work about half the time. Sometimes he'll still be awake after the story.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 11:12 am

amother Blush wrote:

I’ve been threatening to do that lol. Not sure it would actually work because they may either get hysterical or just turn on lights and play lol.

I put them in together because it takes too long to do each one individually and the other one will come disturb… when my husbands around we separate but still takes a good while.