Fasting on YK and risk of premature labor

amother

↑ Dustypink ↓

Fri, Sep 22 2023, 1:10 am

amother Milk wrote:

As a thinking person, it shocks me to be reminded that there are women out there who will submit to hunger and risk to the lives of their unborn babies because a man told them to, and it shocks me that men force this on women. I'm not even a feminist. Just a person who can think for themselves. Whatever happened to using your own reason? I don't care what any rabbi says. I will not fast during pregnancy. It's just crazy.

As a believing Jew it shocks me to be reminded that there are women out there who will submit to committing an aveirah for which one is chayav kares because they decided it risks the lives of their unborn babies despite thousands of expectant women fasting every single YK without any harm.

This is not a chumrah. It's yom kippur for crying out loud. Please don't decide the halacha for yourself! Can you really take that achrayus?

amother

Ginger

Fri, Sep 22 2023, 1:21 am

amother Milk wrote:

So you are ready to submit yourself to your mind, whatever you thought of for yourself. Minds are limited, and your own wisdom and intellect is based on the education and exposure you have had until now.

Many women will accept the words of a doctor, who tells them to the best of his knowledge and ability, what the Medical Science has to say about the matter, what it predicts to be the outcome in various situations.

As frum women, most of us are ready to submit to a Rav, who is telling us to the best of his knowledge and ability, what Hashem has to say about the matter.

And we are frum Jews, descended from Avraham Avinu who was ready to give up his grown only son for Hashem. Thankfully we are not called upon today to make such sacrifices, but sometimes we must silence the niggling worries in our mind and fast despite being pregnant, or refrain from eating healthy albeit unkosher food, or not get the physical-emotional support we long for from our husbands because we are tamei.

Mitzvos are not easy. Accepting a Rav's guidance is not easy. But it is more correct than relying on a doctor or our own brain, because Hashem is the Creator of the world and guided us to follow Rabbonim.

amother

Bisque

Fri, Sep 22 2023, 1:42 am

Op- I get you, it's very nerve wracking to think you may be putting your baby at risk by fasting, and that's why we ask the shailos. I don't know why people are so surprised- I also think it's responsible to ask about fasting, it's our duty first to protect our baby's and pregnancy health.
I'm early pregnant BH and spoke to a doctor about various concerns I had about miscarriage risk due to fasting, relayed that info to rav, and end decision was shiurim liquid only. I don't need anyone to be horrified about "how could I even think not to fast on YK when thousands of mothers have been fine" . We know things now about medical health different than we did hundreds of years ago and we shouldn't ignore that info. And I believe we shouldn't make our own decisions due to that but bring to a trusted rav and doctor and know that's our part to do. I fasted other pregnancies in eighth month based on Rav advice, but that's easier to know when you are feeling unwell or contracting. Early pregnancy the risk is not even better if I'm in bed, it's all about the hydration.

OP- were there specific concerns the DR had? Or just a blanket no fasting? If they have a specific reason explained and that's discussed with the Rav, sometimes that makes a difference or at least it's easier to understand the decision. If you are concerned and nervous, can that be reported to the Rav and he explain why he thinks it's not dangerous?

amother

Jean

Fri, Sep 22 2023, 4:59 am

I'm very confused here.
You're Rav told you to ask the doctor about the risks to you or your baby regarding fasting. Your doctor said that there were no other risks other than the fact that you're pregnant. Your doctor (not jewish presumably) does not recommend fasting because of a regular pregnancy.
Your Rav said that's it's not a reason not to fast Yom Kippur (Yom Kippur!! The holiest day of the year!!) so you still need to fast.
What is the matter with this? Pretty straightforward. Once a Rav gives a psak it should give you a calming feeling that know you know what is right. Hatzlacha and I hope you have an easy fast!

On the other hand,
Just to ask other posters. You know that you are NOT ALLOWED to be over a derabbanan? You are NOT ALLOWED to have shiurim. When there is a worry that you may come to a case of pikuach nefesh and have to break a deoraisa (fasting on yom kippur) then Rabbanim allow you to be over a derabannan first. It is also more lenient in regard to heterim given.
But I feel people here do not understand that it is ASSUR to have shiurim on Yom Kippur without getting a heter from a Rav.

goodmorning

Fri, Sep 22 2023, 9:46 am

amother Mocha wrote:

I drink shiurim on YK when pregnant after 23 weeks. Not high risk. My rav says its better to drink shiurim, which is still deoraisa fasting, than to risk having to drink more if there are contractions/concerns later in the day and therefore fully break the fast. Everyone saying OP is anxious - there are plenty of women who do this and poskim who advise them to. Just because it worked out for you doesn't mean it always works out.

To clarify, we pasken in accordance with the view of R' Yochanan (Yoma 73b) that eating less than a shiur is an issur d'Oraisa. It is, not, however a chiyuv kares.

See Rambam Hilchos Shevisas Ha'Asur 2:3

Quote:

אָכַל אוֹ שָׁתָה פָּחוֹת מִשִּׁעוּר זֶה אֵינוֹ חַיָּב כָּרֵת. אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁהוּא אָסוּר מִן הַתּוֹרָה בַּחֲצִי שִׁעוּר אֵין חַיָּבִין כָּרֵת אֶלָּא עַל כַּשִּׁעוּר. וְהָאוֹכֵל אוֹ הַשּׁוֹתֶה חֲצִי שִׁעוּר מַכִּין אוֹתוֹ מַכַּת מַרְדּוּת:
If a person eats or drinks less than the above-mentioned measures, he is not liable for karet. Although the Torah forbids partaking of less than the measure [for which punishment is given], one is not liable for karet unless [one partakes of] that measure.
A person who eats or drinks less than the minimal measure is given "stripes for rebellion."

gootlfriends

Fri, Sep 22 2023, 1:57 pm

I fasted 6 weeks before my due date yk. I was told to stay in bed and have a shot glasses with grape juice available if I didn't feel well. I was fine. Got a bit low blood sugar after breaking my fast but then I was fine. Unless you are high risk (gestational diabetes or some other condition) you should be fine.

amother

Hyacinth ↓

Fri, Sep 22 2023, 2:00 pm

I’m pregnant now 20 something weeks bh and this thread is making me anxious for no reason. I was starting to doubt my ability to fast with 2 little kids home until I remembered… I fasted on tisha beav and was fine bh. No need to panic ladies. Most probably you will be fine. And if u c”v feel contractions, drink until the contractions go away. Why worry if you are not high risk?

amother

↑ Seafoam ↓

Fri, Sep 22 2023, 2:54 pm

amother Milk wrote:

The Torah is min hashamayim. It was not written by a man. And it is the blueprint of the world.

amother

Lightpink

Fri, Sep 22 2023, 2:54 pm

In healthy pregnancies and assuming you prepared well before Yk it shouldn’t be a huge concern. Plus there are many leniencies with shiurim for if and when you feel unwell. If your pregnancy is going well I don’t think most rabbis will tell you to go into it drinking shiurim but it’s easy to get a heter to start shiurim if you feel unwell. Women have been fasting Yk for thousands of years and if it was obvious that it causes widespread issues I really think the Halacha would be different.

I’m 23 weeks. My plan is to stay in bed as much as possible while babysitter or husband watches my toddler. I also printed out guidelines from rabbi on when shiurim are allowed and how much. And I’m drinking tons now through Sunday. Gd willing Hashem will bless us all with an easy fast and sweet ne year!

amother

↑ OP

Fri, Sep 22 2023, 2:58 pm

gootlfriends wrote:

I'm getting tested for gestational diabetes literally a few days after YK. At this point, I can't know if I have it or not.

amother

Peru ↓

Fri, Sep 22 2023, 3:01 pm

I have low risk pregnancies, but I get dehydrated very easily and I have started contractions because of dehydration. I drink plenty of Powerade before the fast and spend the entire fast in bed. Only once I had to drink some Powerade on Yom Kippur, because I started feeling symptoms of dehydration. I was told not to wait for contractions but to drink as soon as I feel dehydration starting.

amother

Fern

Fri, Sep 22 2023, 3:08 pm

amother Lavender wrote:

Not sure what the big deal about fasting is. I fasted all fasts during my pregnancies. It was never an issue.

Same. And women who hv nausea in first trimester are often vomiting up anything they manage to get down. I had days I literally are nothing.
They lose 5/10 lbs in a month & it's totally fine. So not sure why suddenly it's a HUGE sakana for a woman to fast at 8 weeks or 10 weeks, just because she's pregnant. ( I'm not talking about someone who has a specific issue with their pregnancy and a doctor has said that specifically for them it is dangerous.)
I've had 6 pregnancies, this is my 3rd on yk & I fasted fine.

And no rav, I promise, is saying that if you feel that you might be in danger after starting to fast then you have to continue fasting. Every single one will say that if you're suddenly feeling like you're truly in danger you start with shiurim and then you continue with eating or drinking regularly if that doesn't help.
All they are saying is that in a typical situation you should be fine and with something that is so chamur you don't start out not even trying.

amother

↑ Peru ↓

Fri, Sep 22 2023, 3:09 pm

amother Red wrote:

2) I have a friend who had very difficult pregnancies and rambunctious boys. She did not live near family. Her Rav said from a halachah standpoint it's better for her to stay in bed all day and her husband should stay home from shul! And he did (except for a few short periods when someone else was able to come).

We were told the same. Dh ended up davening vasikin and I was able to get some help so BH it was unnecessary. But we would have done this otherwise

amother

↑ Leaf ↓

Fri, Sep 22 2023, 3:45 pm

amother Fern wrote:

Yup. As I said earlier, I have HG pregnancies and I eat and drink absolutely zero- ZERO!- in the beginning. After a few weeks I have iv and nutrition TPN, to keep me alive, but no- one day of fasting is not a big deal

And to the poster who said she trusts her mind over a ravs psak… well that’s about the most arrogant thing I’ve ever heard
Hashem created your mind and your limited understanding. You know, the same Hashem that gave us the Torah, the day of Yom Kippur, the punishment of kareis, the very pregnancy and body you are talking about to begin with! He also gave rabanim the tools to understand the Torah.

If you truly believe that your mind knows more than your Creator’s… then I’m not sure this is the site for you.