Mishpacha Mag. and kids buying food at canteen in camp.

amother

Stonewash ↓

Mon, Jul 31 2023, 7:55 pm

amother Latte wrote:

I guess the purpose of "camp" is not what I thought it was. I thought it's davka to get kids used to "roughing it" a bit, to get rid of some of the "spoiledness" that many urban kids have. Otherwise why bother calling it camp? Call it a children's resort. The water in camp isn't tasty? So what? They can get used to it. The meals aren't their fave? So what? They can get used to it. They won't always necessarily live in circumstances that suit their every taste. Especially if you expect your kids to live the kollel lifestyle, you should be getting them used to making do with what they have. If anyone had told my parents that they should spend money on bottled water to send with their dd to camp, they would have looked at you as if you had two heads. And if you had said this to me, my response would have been less than polite. Thank G-d this nonsense wasn't a thing when I was sending kids to camp.

My family is the opposite of spoiled, but the water in most camps is absolutely undrinkable. Frankly, it may not even be safe to drink. We are not talking about not being tasty. We are talking about tasting vile.

amother

↑ Stonewash ↓

Mon, Jul 31 2023, 8:04 pm

B'Siyata DiShamaya wrote:

If I understood you correctly you want the camp to provide proper, tasty meals? Or you think its ok for the canteen to make up for the camp kitchens offerings.

I think there is an element of social pressure that should be acknowledged. Kids who might be ok with the camp food are socially pressured to buy the canteen food and not eat the food that others have deemed eeeeuuuuwwww...(I remember cooks that really tried to please the palates of the campers - anyone remember Mickey from Sternberg ??Mystery "meat" balls?? My husband said in his yeshiva they called the meatballs "nosen lechem lechol basar")

Since you send your kids to camp to have a good time like you write, the meals are considered secondary or tertiary in importance. Same as in Seminaries.

The sad thing is that its possible for camps to provide good food at low costs.

I remember Mickey! My favorite foods at Sternberg were the homemade pizza and the cold fruit soup for Shabbos lunch. I remember the hot chocolate for breakfast was not to my liking but I held the cup for warmth. Otherwise I loved the food at Sternberg including making our own sandwiches for lunch after breakfast on Thursday (hike day). (I just didn't love the way my bowl turned yellow from the Shabbos soup Friday night!)

amother

↑ Stonewash

Mon, Jul 31 2023, 8:12 pm

amother Stonewash wrote:

In fact where my daughter went (camp Dina) it was advised that they use bottle water even when brushing teeth.

What is shameful is that parents have to pay for this water. The camp should be providing free spring water for everyone whether it is on the fields during sports (which they usually did) or just around the bunk (which they didn't.) Every bunk should have a 5 gallon water dispenser that gets refilled when needed.

It's been a dozen years since a child of mine went to sleepaway camp but the need to bring your own water (that's what we did back then) really annoyed me.

amother

↑ Raspberry

Mon, Jul 31 2023, 8:20 pm

amother Dill wrote:

This. It's obscene how so much of camp and day camp and really all of frum life centers around food. How much we are moving away from food as fuel and towards food as entertainment. We are setting us all up for a lifetime of health issues. Kids who are hungry after dinner should be having a fruit or vegetable. Not potato chips or noodle soup and certainly not shnitzel sandwiches. For posters who are happy their kids have real food options, I'm genuinely not sure a canteen shnitzel sandwich or burger is all that different nutritionally from a noodle soup. Crackers with peanut butter are more nutritionally sound than pastrami sandwiches.
It's lovely that camp Simcha has an adorable candy land for a canteen but it's sad because those kids more than others need solid nutrition, not free rein to unlimited candy.

I think there’s a happy medium. They can have some nosh and treats. It’s the summer. Saying that they should only have fruit or vegetables after meals is going to get most parents nowhere. That’s not the same things as having Dougies delivered.

amother

↑ Mint

Mon, Jul 31 2023, 8:26 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

You can say pas b'melech tochal but 3 words: Yeshivas Chachmei Lublin. And a few more: Slobodka also tried to create an image of a dignified yeshiva man. Did that mean they ate gourmet or slept on the finest mattresses? No. But they didn't have to scramble.

And some of those earlier camps were in effect kiruv camps so maybe they made sure to have nice facilities.

This is not about pas b'melach or scrambling, I'm specifically talking about extras, like air conditioned bunks and hot pastrami sandwiches in canteen. You really think those are standards that would be supported by those roshei yeshiva? I'm very, very doubtful.

amother

Snapdragon ↓

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 6:50 am

amother Chambray wrote:

I was also disturbed by that article. The amount I spent on my kids to go to sleepaway camp is not normal by the time I’m done with camp tuition, shopping, nosh, tips, canteen etc.
It seems so wrong to add this ridiculous pressure to the kids (and parents) to spend additional money on takeout food. Not to mention the inevitable kids who won’t be able to afford it and end up feeling deprived.

I don’t understand this. You Give your kid $ for canteen- if they choose to buy 1 sandwich instead of 10 drinks, that’s how they learn to budget. Unless you bow to thr pressure and refill their account. My son goes with thr same amount of canteen $ each year and has learned to save the hot food for a treat or thr money goes pretty quick. So much kvetching on this thread

amother

↑ Snapdragon

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 7:02 am

amother Tomato wrote:

Also, to all the posters talking about how canteen has now unleveled the playing field- I actually think that happens in many ways even without canteen being an issue. My boys need all tiros, not a cheaper brand. Slides have to be under armor, sweatshirt is also brand name etc etc etc… you can’t just bring any nosh, it’s not like they just bring a bag of pretzels and potato chips, we need jolly ranchers, jerky, cy chocolate etc etc etc… any my son is not any more gashmiyusdik then the next boy. Believe me. But they need electric fly swatters, neck fans, the most powerful flashlight. What I’m trying to say is that everything is over the top, the canteen is just the icing on the top but it’s not like if they got rid of the canteen the issue would be gone. This is part of galus and it needs be dealt with in a bigger way then saying it’s all bc of canteen… just my two cents…

You either send to the wrong camp or live in the wrong city- that your son has a need for that entire list of stuff. Aside from the tiros (which are great, versatile pants that I get on sale during the winter and stockpile), my son didn’t even mention needing that stuff. And aside from the case of gefen soups, the rest of his nosh was bought in Walmart. He’s not a clueless kid- we live in a city and send to a camp where this stuff is not important. That’s not to say some of the other boys don’t have it, there’s just no pressure to need it for yourself.

amother

↑ Scarlet ↓

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 7:27 am

yolo81 wrote:

and for all the people commenting to drink the tap water. would you bec I would not!!!!!!

Of course. My whole life I have primarily only had tap water to drink. As a kid it was straight from the tap. Now, it's filtered and cooled from the fridge, but still tap water. As a kid if we wanted cold tap water, we added ice. For camp we had big water jugs that we filled up and drank from. We had smaller reusable water bottles for school. I don't know anyone who used bottled water exclusively as a kids.

amother

Camellia

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 7:48 am

keym wrote:

Making life as comfortable as possible SO THAT we can learn and grow is a concept in Torah.
If it's not yours, that's fine

The problem is when you make life too comfortable you don't build the resilience that kids need. Filling a kids every need before they even feel the need is determintal to their ability to become mature adults. And, making life so easy and fun for kids will set them up as failures as adults. This is why in my opinion we are seeing so many husbands who simply don't want to take on enough responsibility to be a father who helps and supports his family. Many guys would rather continue the comfortable, carefree like we have grown them used to.

mommy3b2c ↓

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 7:54 am

amother Latte wrote:

Do you have kids ? If you do , I really think your thought process is going to harm them . I’m actually shocked that you expect kids to drink from tap water in camp. I don’t even COOK in tap water when I am upstate. The water is dirty and disgusting .

↑ mommy3b2c ↓

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 7:56 am

amother Camellia wrote:

The opposite . Filling kids needs as much as you can is what gives them the confidence and feeling of safety to allow them to grow up to be resilient adults. My kids are extremely resilient bh and I give them everything they want within reason . My parents, on the other hand, said no to me all the time on principle and I am a nervous wreck who cries like a baby everytime something stupid goes wrong .

Last edited by mommy3b2c on Tue, Aug 01 2023, 7:57 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

↑ Scarlet

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 7:57 am

HonesttoGod wrote:

You do know that boiled water is ok right?
I guarantee they’re not boiling it before putting it in the faucets.

There's really no guarantee that all water comes to a full boil for at least a minute before being added to the food.
If there were dangerous bacteria in the water they'd be getting sick from washing and bathing in it, and brushing their teeth with it. Or eating off dishes washed with it. Any other concerns in the water like heavy metals or other toxins are not coming out of the water when boiled.

amother

Whitesmoke

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 8:00 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

I'm not sure this has to do with parents, it's a personality type.

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 8:56 am

amother Camellia wrote:

Rabbi Frand describes how he got a new refrigerator and they offered to throw in a water or ice dispenser, don't remember which.

I also don't remember if he got in the end but he mused that now this would become his kids' new norm.

B"H we grow up with a lot of norms. No one's going back to party lines on the phone, or washboards for laundry.

But, I heard this on a podcast from someone who studies addiction and pleasure, as the standard of living increased in the 20th century, so too did happiness. But about 20 years ago things changed. Pleasure comes easily, and we want it, and we can get it, so we keep getting it. And then we want more and more. We do have to make sure that our kids, and we ourselves, get in some hard work on a regular basis, that we encounter resistance. In a way, we have a head start on the world. This expert suggested exercise, and taking time to pray every day. We do that. We spend time on things that aren't physical pleasure and delay gratification every day (waiting 1,3, 5.5., 6 hours for milchigs, e.g.).

But we do need to put in work, and embrace challenge. We might get our dopamine hits from these kinds of pleasures too. I don't remember who said this, but he said that in his time, you worked for Pirchei, Agudah, camps as a kid and you were saving souls, you had a mission. BH for our successes but kids don't have the same opportunities.

Life should be happy, all of it, but we can't expect it all to be fun, as defined now.

↑ PinkFridge

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 9:01 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

Rav Hirsch says that it's important not to let a baby cry (don't remember to what age) because our care for the baby is a metaphor for Hashem taking care of us; if the baby gets his need met, he will feel secure that Hashem will take care of His needs.

Of course, for the child's own good, we have to say no sometimes. The bolded is critical.

And kol hakavod that you can give so freely despite what your experiences. (As an adult looking back, do you ever have some sort of understanding or compassion for your parents? It's interesting trying to fill in the blanks re my parents sometimes.)

↑ keym

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 9:14 am

PinkFridge wrote:

And often, the way we grew up wasn't the best, but we made the best.
How many other people grew up drinking juice constantly. At home it was frozen concentrate and for fancy occasions cartoned juice.
In camp, we drank punch or lemonade or iced tea (powdered, no pretence of nutrition).
I strongly believe all that juice and powder was to push us to drink to counteract the bad flavor of tap water

Nowadays people splurge on bottled water, cheap filters, expensive filters, extra expensive pipes. And now we have a general society that drinks water. Juice is not constant.
I see for my kids in camp. It's massive coolers of water on trips, not punch.

Saying "we all drank tap water in camp and home happily" is revisionist history at best and we know it
We drank tap water when we were really thirsty. But we also drank tons of punch and iced tea.

I for one am thrilled to buy cases of bottled water for my kids in camp so they drink water. And my mother, mil, their friends can shake their head at how I'm "spoiling" my kids and giving them new standards are also totally overlooking the fact that we rarely drank water as kids.