Chossidmom's thread about childhood vaccines

↑ ora_43 ↓

Wed, Jun 28 2023, 3:40 am

amother Strawberry wrote:

After a large amount of people got Covid vaccine in Feb - April 2021, there was an initial decrease in Covid. Then in Summer 2021 the Delta variant came, which was as bad as the original, but vaccine resistant.

Eventually in Fall 2021, in many countries people just got sick and tired of lockdowns and not living their lives, and they started rebelling against the lockdowns, or the lockdowns were loosened even though the Covid was as bad as ever. THAT led to the virus being able to mutate into more catchable, but less dangerous strains (Omicron on), which is what finally got us out of the crisis. Not the shot. Definitely not the lockdowns or the masks. But allowing the spread of the virus which allowed it to naturally mutate into a less dangerous virus.

The masks did nothing except harm QOL and harm childrens education. The lockdowns SLOWED the ending of the crisis. Had there been no lockdown measures on the low risk, the virus would have mutated into less dangerous variants more quickly, and the crisis would have ended with much less casualties.

Selection for less virulent strains happens when more virulent strains can't spread effectively (whether because of vaccines, or sick people staying home, or whatever else) while less virulent strains can, because people who don't feel symptomatic go out and infect others.

So it doesn't happen during a full lockdown, yes, but there's also no selection specifically for less virulent strains when viruses are spreading freely.

Your history of Covid policy seems to be coming from a very specific place and time. I'll refrain from guessing when and where. But you should know that in general, in like 99% of the world, there wasn't a state of full lockdown all the way to Fall 2021.

It's also potentially important to note that Omicron began in Botswana and South Africa, so if your argument is that a specific country's policy caused the virus to mutate, those would be the countries to look at. Neither was on lockdown for the entire period leading into Fall 2021, and AFAIK neither had fully relaxed their rules at that point either.

amother

↑ Strawberry ↓

Wed, Jun 28 2023, 5:06 am

ora_43 wrote:

The vaccine had nothing to do with the end of the Covid crisis. It did give a temporary respite for late Spring 2021, only to come back fully once Delta came on scene. Basically as soon as Delta hit, it was clear and evident that the vaccine was not effective, and serious side effects were starting to become known at the same time, but the shot was still pushed and even forced on many people. Why? Corruption, greed, politics. The vaccine, including the newer version that was supposed to be effwctive against Omicron, was even LESS effective against Omicron and the post-Omicron strains (for which a vaccine was even less necessary in the first place), and yet even in 2022 there were people being fired or unable to find employment because they refused to take this useless shot (or refused the 3rd dose!)

I never said it was a specific country's policies that led to the end of the crisis. It would be silly to expect that in a world of 7.8 Billion people, the virus would have to mutate in tiny Sweden, or FL, or whatever, but it was the fact that the virus was allowed to spread, that led to the "cure". Giving the vaccine credit for the end of the Covid crisis is like giving the British credit for the rebirth of Israel.

↑ ora_43 ↓

Wed, Jun 28 2023, 7:36 am

amother Strawberry wrote:

I never said it was a specific country's policies that led to the end of the crisis. It would be silly to expect that in a world of 7.8 Billion people, the virus would have to mutate in tiny Sweden, or FL, or whatever, but it was the fact that the virus was allowed to spread, that led to the "cure". Giving the vaccine credit for the end of the Covid crisis is like giving the British credit for the rebirth of Israel.

First of all, many many countries were allowing asymptomatic people to mingle before then. That's why I'm suggesting you're overly focused on one country. Because if the whole big secret is that if you don't try to stop the virus, it magically gets better, then you need to take into account that there were whole huge parts of the world where viruses were transmitted freely.

But more importantly - that's just not how it works. We have thousands of years of history that says that pressure toward selection of less-virulent viruses only happens when more-virulent variants are "penalized." (like, say, by vaccines)

A situation where viruses spread freely is close to the opposite of what leads to less-virulent strains. If people who are actively symptomatic are out and about and sneezing on people the only way a less-virulent strain takes hold is through sheer dumb luck.

amother

↑ Mustard ↓

Wed, Jun 28 2023, 7:41 am

ora_43 wrote:

Who do you think should be funding research on products, then? Because you should know, it's basically always the companies. The person who wants to sell a product is responsible for proving it's safe, because why would a neutral party invest $100,000 so that a corporation can make money?

It's true for the car you drive, the food you eat, the house you live in...

But just because something is funded by an interested party doesn't make it unscientific. A study is scientific if it's (1) replicable (2) disprovable (meaning, there is a set of results for which we would have to say the hypothesis is wrong).

It should be an unbiased third party proving its safe. Obviously. Especially if it's something the government is going to mandate for millions of its citizens.

amother

↑ Strawberry ↓

Wed, Jun 28 2023, 8:04 am

ora_43 wrote:

It's science, not magic. Natural selection of viruses is that the the more "catchable" a virus is, the more it spreads, and the viruses that are more "successful" are the ones who are more catchable and less dangerous -- if they kill their host, or make him stay in bed for a few days, they will be less successful than if they merely make him sneeze.

Since it's not magic, it's also not instantaneous, which why a few countries letting people intermingle isn't a guarantee that a less dangerous strain will appear in those countries within a few months, but it's certainly the right step to take. It's like if your goal is to produce more MAJOR advances in science so you go about advancing science education in different countries. It's the right thing to do, but if you only do it in Sweden, and a little here and there in a few other countries, and after a couple of generations you don't have any BIG results, it doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing to do. And if a major science advance happens in the 98% of the population that was NOT doing anything to try to advance science education, but they just happened to have one little area where the spark took, that also doesn't prove anything.

People who are actively symptomatic and are just out sneezing, then fine, they spread it, but they're just spreading a sneezing virus. When people have a worse virus that makes them feel like sh!t, they stay home, go to the hospital, or even die and thus aren't spreading the worse virus, and there's no need to force the sneezers to stay home or keep millions of children out of education for years because they might sneeze!

Magical thinking is saying a vaccine that was widely taken by April, and was useless to a variant that became the major variant in July, gets credit for the decrease in cases/severity that happened in December after the virus mutated into yet another variant (that the vaccine was also useless against)! You might as well credit the 2019 flu vaccine for the ending of the Covid crisis.

↑ ora_43

Wed, Jun 28 2023, 10:27 am

amother Strawberry wrote:

This is wrong.

Yes, it's about natural selection. No, there is no natural selection for milder viruses - or more, there is natural selection for milder viruses only if the more virulent ones aren't spreading just as quickly.

That's not a given. Look at ebola, look at HIV, look at smallpox for most of history. Look at polio, syphilis, Spanish flu. Plenty of very very nasty viruses have gone around for a very long time.

As long as the virus spread before it kills the host there's no reason not to kill the host. And the more quickly it spreads, the more quickly the host can die without impacting the virus's survival at all.

The first strains of covid were able to spread plenty quickly even as they killed about 1.6% of people. Plus, about 80% of people who got it weren't symptomatic. So there was really no reason at all that Omicron (which is just as likely to be symptomatic) would be favored simply because it's less deadly.

amother

↑ Strawberry

Wed, Jun 28 2023, 2:43 pm

ora_43 wrote:

Omicron spread much much more quickly than Delta and the original. That's part of the reason some authoritarian countries threw up their hands and loosened lockdowns when Omicron hit -- even they had to admit they couldn't control the spread.

1.6% of people is a highly, highly controversial. Even if you accept that as a figure, you have to consider that it was a highly specific type of person (nursing home, hospice), a large percentage of which could have been placed in a sort of lockdown without requiring the other 95% of the population to suffer so greatly. Even with the worst strains, exactly 0 (that's right, ZERO!!) young adults (19 - 50) without preexisting health conditions died of ANY covid strain in Israel. I'm sure there are similar stats for ages 0 - 18 and nothing unique to Israel here. This population did not need to be tortured and have their lives destroyed for 2 + years. https://www.israelnationalnews.....71935

Now if you really want to compare Covid (even the original strain) to Smallpox, Spanish Flu, etc, please give me an estimate of how many healthy people aged 19 - 50 would have been expected to die of those viruses in an Israel sized sample, and let's compare that number to Covid's BIG FAT ZERO!

But still, this was started about vaccine effectiveness. Even if you claim that the vaccine stopped the main strain of Covid (I personally saw a major decrease in cases at the right time, so I"ll accept that), it is laughable to claim that the vaccine, which was ineffective against Delta, stopped Delta, which was as dangerous as the original. So how can you say the vaccine stopped, or even helped with, the Covid crisis?!

amother

↑ Mustard ↓

Thu, Jun 29 2023, 7:24 am

amother Poinsettia wrote:

Can someone answer? I'm very confused with this vaccine

First off, the vaccine doesn't protect against all forms of meningitis, just bacterial.
Second of all, the vaccine itself can cause brain injuries.
Third of all, it's OK to acknowledge that not vaccinating comes with its own set of risks. You need to decide which set of risks you can live with. Nobody can really decide that for you.
Lastly, it's very empowering to have an excellent understanding of disease processes, how the terrain in the body will affect that, and ways to protect yourself from diseases that don't also risk your health at the same time.

amother

↑ NeonBlue ↓

Thu, Jun 29 2023, 7:32 am

amother Mustard wrote:

Bacterial meningitis is the deadlier 1..
How can 1 protect themselves naturally?

amother

↑ Buttercup

Thu, Jun 29 2023, 7:43 am

amother Mustard wrote:

I said these exact same words until I started vaccinating. Spare yourselves everyone of the pretense of being a doctor and ask your real one.
It is so easy to sow mistrust and fear amongst parents who will do anything and everything for their child. Especially amongst vulnerable people who have a hard time trusting to begin with.
But it's not right. Parents are being taken advantage of because of their vulnerabilities.
Part of being an adult is recognizing that when there are two not-ideal options, we ask advice from an expert in that area, and trust that Hashem is guiding you on that path. Even if you don't understand it or have gut feelings against it, you proceed according to the expert because you have placed your utmost trust in Hashem that no harm will befall your child.
Yes it could be scary. So is buying a house or getting into a car behind a wheel. It's part of adulthood.

↑ ChossidMom ↓

Mon, Jul 31 2023, 3:56 am

Recording of Dr. Pierre Kory MD Talk on Childhood Vaccines, July 30, 2023
Don’t miss it!

BRUCHA WEISBERGER
BS”D

Here is Dr. Pierre Kory’s talk today on childhood vaccines. Thank G-d, it was really, really informative, interesting, and super valuable. It’s only an hour and a half long. Please don’t miss it, if you’re facing vaccine decisions or know anyone who is.

Here’s the original zoom recording. It can be downloaded. https://us02web.zoom.us/rec/sh.....rH3rA

Here is the rumble link:

https://rumble.com/v33ge0z-jul......html

Additional important information:

Some people requested Dr. Kory’s slides. Dr. Kory gave them to me, but I need my tech support person to attach them to the article. 😊 Try refreshing this page tomorrow, or email me to send them to you.

Dr. Kory touched lightly on the topic of treatments for illnesses (which some parents tend to worry about when they choose not to vaccinate.) It’s important to realize that this worry is based on the assumption that the vaccines are what took away childhood illnesses, which Dr. Kory debunks. He shows graphs proving that childhood illnesses had been on a drastic decline before vaccines were developed. If you think about this, it makes sense, as the illnesses for which there are no vaccines at all have also, thank G-d, disappeared.

In any case, Dr. Kory mentioned that various “newly discovered” viral treatments such as ivermectin - whose efficacy against viruses has become known due to covid - look very promising for the old childhood illnesses - which are also RNA viruses.

Note: Since some people have asked me, here are sites with whooping cough treatment information:

https://drsuzanne.net/2017/10/.....s-md/

https://thefamilythathealstoge.....ocol/

Keeping your child in good health with proper nutrition and an excellent vitamin D level is one of the most important ways, G-d willing, to fend off illness.

amother

↑ Mustard ↓

Mon, Jul 31 2023, 10:36 am

amother Buttercup wrote:

Asking the expert isn't the right answer in every situation. Gut feelings and intuition can be very powerful, especially when it comes to parenting decisions. Also, the experts in this case are very biased, and also preying on parents' fears.

↑ ChossidMom ↓

Mon, Jul 31 2023, 10:36 am

amother Snowflake wrote:

Isnt he a majorly pro vaccine Dr before covid?

If so it will be interested to see how he feels after re studying the science after covid.

Dr. Kory was not against childhood vaccines ever. He is a pulmonary specialist.
He and his children are fully vaccinated (except for Covid).
The lies, censorship, and wrongdoings (to put it mildly) during Covid is what made him investigate. Watch him, listen to him and see how you feel about him. For me he is one of the people who radiates truth and integrity since the beginning of the Covid era.

Last edited by ChossidMom on Tue, Aug 01 2023, 12:23 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Blush ↓

Mon, Jul 31 2023, 10:39 am

ChossidMom wrote:

Dr. Kory touched lightly on the topic of treatments for illnesses (which some parents tend to worry about when they choose not to vaccinate.) It’s important to realize that this worry is based on the assumption that the vaccines are what took away childhood illnesses, which Dr. Kory debunks. He shows graphs proving that childhood illnesses had been on a drastic decline before vaccines were developed. If you think about this, it makes sense, as the illnesses for which there are no vaccines at all have also, thank G-d, disappeared.

I like how del bigtree says it - they say vaccines are the greatest invention of medicine. No. The toilet (with running sewer system) is!

In case it wasn't recommended yet, I highly recommend the book dissolving illusions by Suzanne Humphreys.