Mishpacha Mag. and kids buying food at canteen in camp.

amother

↑ Latte

Sun, Jul 30 2023, 10:05 pm

I guess the purpose of "camp" is not what I thought it was. I thought it's davka to get kids used to "roughing it" a bit, to get rid of some of the "spoiledness" that many urban kids have. Otherwise why bother calling it camp? Call it a children's resort. The water in camp isn't tasty? So what? They can get used to it. The meals aren't their fave? So what? They can get used to it. They won't always necessarily live in circumstances that suit their every taste. Especially if you expect your kids to live the kollel lifestyle, you should be getting them used to making do with what they have. If anyone had told my parents that they should spend money on bottled water to send with their dd to camp, they would have looked at you as if you had two heads. And if you had said this to me, my response would have been less than polite. Thank G-d this nonsense wasn't a thing when I was sending kids to camp.

↑ keym ↓

Sun, Jul 30 2023, 10:40 pm

amother Latte wrote:

A disclaimer that im talking for myself, my community and my experience.
I am under my screen name, and you are not, so I actually have no idea who you are, which community you are in, etc.

My purpose in sending my boys to camp is not to "rough it up". It never was. And my Rabbanim never had that in mind. Not for the past 30 years at least.

My purpose in sending my teen boys to camp is to provide them a structured atmosphere where they can learn, have fun, and relax. Where the atmosphere in conducive for learning and growing, where they can play sports, go swimming and get fresh air without worrying about what they'll see or be exposed to.

It's not a new thing either. It's known that many of these boys yeshiva camps had a running in the Bais Medrash all day to make it as comfortable as possible. And that Roshei Yeshiva were instructing their camps to instal fans in the bedrooms more than 40 years ago.
Anyone who wants can pm for exact places, etc.

Meaning it never was to "rough it up". It was for a change of scenery. A relaxing environment.

It doesn't have to be gourmet. But buying water so my kids don't get dehydrated in 2023 is fairly typical.
And it's up to every parent to discuss and decide canteen budget. No different than Tshirt styles and budget and sneakers.

One doesn't have to be nasty to or about a child who makes the choice to buy a burger from canteen, same way one doesn't have to be nasty about a child who chooses to buy a brand sneaker or an amount of tshirts.
And my kid having a burger doesn't make him spoiled. It means it's a parenting choice. Maybe my kid is spoiled, maybe not.

↑ HonesttoGod ↓

Sun, Jul 30 2023, 11:08 pm

amother Latte wrote:

Roughing it? I’m not sending my boys to scout camp!
I’m sending them to a) have a schedule/program which they don’t have in the city (no day camp for their age) b) have space fresh air and again, space, to play sports run around and make friends who are not in their 4 classroom walls. To learn AND grow.

In that time I do not want them to get dehydrated nor do I want them to drink water from an unknown source that may or may not be filtered. Yes the camp does supply drinks during sports and meals but what about at night? Or in the morning? Or after lunch but before sports?

I don’t want my kids to get used to a kolel lifestyle.
The world isn’t what it was 40 years ago and no matter how hard some people/rabbanim try to keep us there, we grow and change and move forward. Thank God water bottles are a part of that.

amother

Plum ↓

Mon, Jul 31 2023, 12:47 am

keym wrote:

My sons are in camp.
The food is good and generous. And I sent them up with some nosh.
But also supper is at 6. At midnight, when night activity is over, they're really hungry. (Teenage boys).
So yeah, they could go to their bunks and eat their way through an entire bag of chips.
Or occasionally as a treat, they can buy themselves a burger or pastrami sandwich.
Not every night, but personally I prefer the real food rather than a case of cookies.

If course there are boys who buy every night. The same way there are kids who get ice cream or sushi every night.
But in my boys camps (2 Lakewood yeshiva Mesivta camps) the average is 1 1/2 sandwiches a week.

What did teens do in the past when all this wasn't available? The kitchen usually had some basics - bread, peanut butter and cereal - and that was a midnight snack. Why normalize burger and pastrami sandwiches for young teens at this very age? I still remember my days in the camps. We got creative with the food that was available to us. I.e We took bread and cheese from the kitchen during breakfast and stored them in our bunk. We then made either grilled cheese or homemade pizza, using silver foil and irons.

Kids will figure it out, and no, they won't be eaching chips every night. This just caters to our crazy high standards - pastrami sandwiches midnights at camps. If we normalize such high standards at this very age, is it no wonder that our standards our spiraling way out of control?

amother

↑ Plum ↓

Mon, Jul 31 2023, 12:54 am

keym wrote:

Maybe roughing it out was the wrong choice of words. It's rather teaching them to live with a bit less, to recognize and appreciate all that they do have elsewhere. When we continue to provide for them with such high standards, our kids grow up thinking that these high standards are the norm. They don't even recognize them for what they truly are - luxury and comfort items.

It's good and healthy to change things up for kids. It we continue to create such comfort and luxuries for them - all for the sake of learning, then that is the lesson they learn. That in order to learn they need and deserve all this comfort level. This is what they expect and demand when they get married too. They don't think they need to sacrifice for learning - they think the wife / in-laws / community / government should pony up some money just so they can have their comforts in order for them to learn. It's not them who needs to sacrifice for learning - it's rather everyone else around should them sacrifice for them.

We wrap them in bubble wrap all through childhood, and then suddenly expect them to behave as responsible adults when they get married. No wonder we have such a sense of entitlement among our bochurim now. We're the ones feeding it to them.

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, Jul 31 2023, 12:58 am

amother Dodgerblue wrote:

In general I feel sorry for kids these days. Its all about bringing the rite clothing and accessories to camp and being spoonfed luxuries. They're missing out on the adventure and creativity we had. So sad

I don't feel bad for the kids! I feel bad for their parents who have to stretch themselves for these extras. (And for the kids who know not to expect or ask their parents for any, while being surrounding by others who have no understanding of not being able to indulge at all. Although I guess in the long run they are better off.)

amother

↑ Plum ↓

Mon, Jul 31 2023, 1:02 am

amother Goldenrod wrote:

I do feel bad for the kids. These kids grow into adulthood with very high expectations, but very often lack the financial means to keep up with it. It sets them up to a lifetime of disappointments and difficulties.

B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Mon, Jul 31 2023, 3:39 am

Voice of reason here: As long as the kids bring the $$, the canteen is going to entice them to get their money.
Its on the customer not the business. If there were no customers, there would be no business. The camp canteen is a business like all others. If we give our kids $50 or more to indulge in whatever, the canteen head is going to find ways to make sure the kids part with their money. Those returning most of the money is the yotzay min haklal, the exception. And BTW, that bothers me too, are they developing insecurities by denying themselves and watching their friends indulge? My kids returned the money and went on to be super careful budget planners which I praise but wonder if they werent given the message that they dont deserve. We always lived within our means and gave our kids that message. But I digress...
Camp food is and always has been horrible and will continue to be until the parents vote with their feet and make it an issue. Since the parents feel they cant make it an issue, it will continue to be this way. Kids survive the bad food but if enticed by amazing canteen offerings can you blame them?
I wish the camps would set the same standards for the canteen as they do other areas of chinuch and know they will only do so when parents and Rabbanim make it an issue.

amother

↑ Raspberry ↓

Mon, Jul 31 2023, 6:46 am

amother Latte wrote:

If a kid isn’t going to drink the water, they could get dehydrated- they’re running around and it’s hot. They’re not asking for champagne here. I don’t consider drinkable water a luxury. Nor do I consider reasonable requests for peanut butter, tuna, crackers, or some other basic food luxurious. The idea isn’t for my child to come home half her size. The only camp that I know that is specifically about ‘roughing it’ is Pioneers at Sternberg and even they wanted edible food despite sleeping in tents. I don’t send my kids to camp every summer- they each get to go to sleep away camp once because of budgetary constraints. So while I’m super conscientious about my budget, I still don’t begrudge them basic foodstuffs. I fill their canteen once and that makes do- and apparently this year I didn’t even need it.

↑ HonesttoGod ↓

Mon, Jul 31 2023, 8:27 am

amother Scarlet wrote:

I guarantee they are not cooking the food with bottled water. If you're concerned about the safety or kashrus of the water, what do you expect them to eat? I just find this bizarre.

You do know that boiled water is ok right?
I guarantee they’re not boiling it before putting it in the faucets.

Seriously if I’m sitting at home eating schnitzel and mashed potatoes why do my kids (for whom I paid money to send to camp to have a. Good time) need to be eating pb+j with crackers because they didn’t like the supper?!

From reading comments here though it seems girls and boys camps are different. There is absolutely no pressure at my boys camp. No fancy clothing etc etc. the canteen has basic food options (yes schnitzel sandwich and franks is basic) which I prefer over nash and I really don’t understand why people think it’s extravagant.

Also to the another who mentioned grilled cheese with an iron, my boys are not allowed any appliances whatsoever. This thread is bizarre. I’m beginning to feel really bad for some kids.

amother

↑ Plum

Mon, Jul 31 2023, 8:42 am

HonesttoGod wrote:

The point wasn't the iron. The point was that kids become creative and figure it out for themselves.

As for not liking the occasional supper - boohoo. That's part of camp life and allows the kids to figure stuff out for themselves. This is partly what camp is supposed to do - allow space for them to be independent and figure stuff out for themselves. So whether they go to the kitchen and ask for other options, or do end up eating crackers and pb, it's building character if anything. It's definitely not hurting them.

Constantly trying to make sure everything is just so is what is more detrimental for our kids than eating crackers and pb. They don't learn necessary life skills how to handle unwelcome circumstances. If we're putting out so many safety nets for them so they can never actually handle life itself, how are they to handle adulthood? No wonder so many among the new generation find early adulthood so difficult to deal with.

Our responsibilities as a mother is not to be helicopter parents to the point where we hinder their growth and development. That's self-serving - it makes us feel good that everything is perfectly orchestrated for our kids. It's not beneficial for the kids though. Part of our responsibilities is stepping aside and letting our kids deal with some discomforts so they develop appropriate life skills. If you cushion their every step, they never learn how to get up when they fall.