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Forum
-> Yom Tov / Holidays
-> Shabbos, Rosh Chodesh, Fast Days, and other Days of Note
amother
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 Thu, Jul 06 2023, 2:27 pm
| amother Azure wrote: | These threads are always very disturbing to me, until I actually picked up the phone and called my Rov.
I am not nursing, not pregnant, not trying and my baby is over 2.
I explicitly wanted to hear from the rov his answer to 'I dont have a problem with fasting, I have a problem with fasting and looking after the kids'
I was pleasantly surprised at his answer and felt very validated.
Everyone, please speak to a competent rov.
Bh Im so blessed our Rov is so approachable and easy to talK TO. TYH. |
what was his answer.
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amother
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Thu, Jul 06 2023, 2:39 pm
I'm wondering what other mitzvot I don't have to do because doing them will make me a bad mother. Or even just - I'm looking after kids. Isn't that why women are patur from mitzvot aseh shehazman grama? Since when does that make us patur from a lo ta'aseh?
Maybe I'm a little jaded, but rabbanim have become a lot more lenient in the last 25 years when it comes to women. Whether it be fasting, going on BC, whether a typical gyn exam makes one a niddah, what is considered a chatzita for mikva etc.. It makes me wonder if rabbanim now-a-days are told by the powers that be to be as lenient as possible when a woman asks for a heter. You can say that that's not our problem, but I think it is. We are looked upon as weak, fragile creatures (emotionally more than physically) and it's not a compliment.
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amother
Nemesia
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Thu, Jul 06 2023, 3:01 pm
So, in our house, my husband does the majority of childcare.
I wonder how it would go over if he asked Rav if he could not fast because he is liable to snap at the kids.
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amother
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Thu, Jul 06 2023, 3:01 pm
| amother Bone wrote: | I'm wondering what other mitzvot I don't have to do because doing them will make me a bad mother.
Maybe I'm a little jaded, but rabbanim have become a lot more lenient in the last 25 years when it comes to women. Whether it be fasting, going on BC, whether a typical gyn exam makes one a niddah, what is considered a chatzita for mikva etc.. It makes me wonder if rabbanim now-a-days are told by the powers that be to be as lenient as possible when a woman asks for a heter. You can say that that's not our problem, but I think it is. We are looked upon as weak, fragile creatures (emotionally more than physically) and it's not a compliment. |
Or maybe we are doing so much more in a days work, that it changes things up for us? Many women work full time plus run heavy-duty households, children can't run around unattended as was done 25 years ago, children are less capable of keeping themselves busy and need more guidance...etc.
There is also more understanding of the long term effects of physical and mental stress.
Another consideration is how much pressure can be applied onto an individual. We have gone down the road of extreme social pressure, extreme tznius pressure, high expectation of YT preparations, shiddduchum pressure, simchas pressure, financial pressure and so on. We human are limited and there's only so much the average person can handle. If you insert more pressure on one end, then something gotta give on the other. Otherwise, something will explode somewhere.
Maybe it's not so much that women are weaker. Its rather that so much of yiddishkeit has been placed onto the shoulders of the women - to unrealistic proportions?
FTR - bir5h control has been around forever. Its not a new thing at all.
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amother
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Thu, Jul 06 2023, 3:07 pm
| amother Poppy wrote: | Or maybe we are doing so much more in a days work, that it changes things up for us? Many women work full time plus run heavy-duty households, children can't run around unattended as was done 25 years ago, children are less capable of keeping themselves busy and need more guidance...etc.
There is also more understanding of the long term effects of physical and mental stress.
Another consideration is how much pressure can be applied onto an individual. We have gone down the road of extreme social pressure, extreme tznius pressure, high expectation of YT preparations, shiddduchum pressure, simchas pressure, financial pressure and so on. We human are limited and there's only so much the average person can handle. If you insert more pressure on one end, then something gotta give on the other. Otherwise, something will explode somewhere.
Maybe it's not so much that women are weaker. Its rather that so much of yiddishkeit has been placed onto the shoulders of the women - to unrealistic proportions?
FTR - bir5h control has been around forever. Its not a new thing at all. |
My children were not running around unattended 25 years ago. If children are less capable of keeping themselves busy, (which I'm not buying) then that's a problem that needs to be dealt with. Not an excuse not to fast. (Not speaking about children with a diagnosis like ADHD etc..)
Putting unnecessary and in some cases anti-Torah pressures on ourselves (such as the bolded) should not then give us an "out" from performing actual mitzvot. Mitzvot that actually remind us that we are in galus which is something that a lot of people don't feel because of our cushy (by comparison to most of human history) lifestyles.
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amother
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Thu, Jul 06 2023, 3:10 pm
| amother Poppy wrote: | Or maybe we are doing so much more in a days work, that it changes things up for us? Many women work full time plus run heavy-duty households, children can't run around unattended as was done 25 years ago, children are less capable of keeping themselves busy and need more guidance...etc.
There is also more understanding of the long term effects of physical and mental stress.
Another consideration is how much pressure can be applied onto an individual. We have gone down the road of extreme social pressure, extreme tznius pressure, high expectation of YT preparations, shiddduchum pressure, simchas pressure, financial pressure and so on. We human are limited and there's only so much the average person can handle. If you insert more pressure on one end, then something gotta give on the other. Otherwise, something will explode somewhere.
Maybe it's not so much that women are weaker. Its rather that so much of yiddishkeit has been placed onto the shoulders of the women - to unrealistic proportions?
FTR - bir5h control has been around forever. Its not a new thing at all. |
How many of you who have been married for 25 years got a heter before having even one child? Anyone? Don't respond if you got one for a medical reason. Now-a-days people get one for right after marriage - no medical reason required. Just ask and you shall get.
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amother
Geranium
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Thu, Jul 06 2023, 3:32 pm
| amother Bone wrote: | | How many of you who have been married for 25 years got a heter before having even one child? Anyone? Don't respond if you got one for a medical reason. Now-a-days people get one for right after marriage - no medical reason required. Just ask and you shall get. |
And I view this as a positive thing.
Less young women stuck with a pg/child when a marriage doesn't work out. Or stuck trying to continue a marriage because they are pg....
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Cookin4days
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Thu, Jul 06 2023, 3:44 pm
| amother Bone wrote: | | How many of you who have been married for 25 years got a heter before having even one child? Anyone? Don't respond if you got one for a medical reason. Now-a-days people get one for right after marriage - no medical reason required. Just ask and you shall get. |
Ok and …?
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amother
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Thu, Jul 06 2023, 4:21 pm
Explaining how hetering for women have changed over the years.
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amother
Hawthorn
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Thu, Jul 06 2023, 4:30 pm
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Now I feel guilty that I didn't ask a rav. But was told by the doctor not to fast as am 33 weeks pregnant and they don't want me fasting 2 times in 3 weeks. My husband also told me not to fast...
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imacoolmom
↓
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Thu, Jul 06 2023, 4:37 pm
| amother Bone wrote: | I'm wondering what other mitzvot I don't have to do because doing them will make me a bad mother. Or even just - I'm looking after kids. Isn't that why women are patur from mitzvot aseh shehazman grama? Since when does that make us patur from a lo ta'aseh?
Maybe I'm a little jaded, but rabbanim have become a lot more lenient in the last 25 years when it comes to women. Whether it be fasting, going on BC, whether a typical gyn exam makes one a niddah, what is considered a chatzita for mikva etc.. It makes me wonder if rabbanim now-a-days are told by the powers that be to be as lenient as possible when a woman asks for a heter. You can say that that's not our problem, but I think it is. We are looked upon as weak, fragile creatures (emotionally more than physically) and it's not a compliment. |
What did I just read……
Wow. No words. And this is under my real name
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amother
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Thu, Jul 06 2023, 4:47 pm
| amother Hawthorn wrote: | | Now I feel guilty that I didn't ask a rav. But was told by the doctor not to fast as am 33 weeks pregnant and they don't want me fasting 2 times in 3 weeks. My husband also told me not to fast... |
Don't feel guilty. That is a medical reason. Not that one can go by a heter of another, but my dd who is 32 weeks along was told not to fast today.
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amother
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Thu, Jul 06 2023, 4:47 pm
| imacoolmom wrote: | What did I just read……
Wow. No words. And this is under my real name |
Maybe you can find some words to tell me what issue you have with what I wrote.
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amother
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Thu, Jul 06 2023, 5:06 pm
| BetsyTacy wrote: | | That is a big generalization. Please ask your own shaila |
You know of poskim who expect pregnant and nursing women to fast as a general rule?
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amother
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Thu, Jul 06 2023, 5:08 pm
| amother Stone wrote: | For today in your case, no need to ask a Shaila.
Though maybe you should ask a Shaila as to whether you should still be nursing. ( I don’t know if it’s a Shaila for your Rav though; more likely for your doctor.) |
Why on earth would this be a shaila?
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amother
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Thu, Jul 06 2023, 5:10 pm
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I don’t think it’s safe for most people to not drink on an 100 degree day unless they are staying inside all day doing nothing.
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amother
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Thu, Jul 06 2023, 5:11 pm
| amother Bone wrote: | I'm wondering what other mitzvot I don't have to do because doing them will make me a bad mother. Or even just - I'm looking after kids. Isn't that why women are patur from mitzvot aseh shehazman grama? Since when does that make us patur from a lo ta'aseh?
Maybe I'm a little jaded, but rabbanim have become a lot more lenient in the last 25 years when it comes to women. Whether it be fasting, going on BC, whether a typical gyn exam makes one a niddah, what is considered a chatzita for mikva etc.. It makes me wonder if rabbanim now-a-days are told by the powers that be to be as lenient as possible when a woman asks for a heter. You can say that that's not our problem, but I think it is. We are looked upon as weak, fragile creatures (emotionally more than physically) and it's not a compliment. |
Frum men still expect a LOT from women, so don’t worry. They clearly think we are super capable.
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amother
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Thu, Jul 06 2023, 5:29 pm
I can’t believe I’m still fasting! It’s almost 5:30pm. I have a little headache. I was able to swallow excedrin without water but it’s not helping (yet).
I don’t have little kids anymore so I really don’t have an excuse. My youngest is 10 and although he needs me and I’ve been busy with him today, it’s not like when I had a few toddlers.
I have an eating disorder. Fasting completely throws me off. I become anxious. I’m hoping I’ll be okay. I usually binge eat the day after a fast. It’s like my brain is telling me to eat eat eat after starving the day before. I really hope that doesn’t happen.
A few times in the past I felt sick, weak and broke my fast. I felt guilty about it. I hate feeling guilty so I’m really trying. At 11am I looked at the clock and said- 10 more hours! And I wanted to cry… now it’s less than 4 hours.
Fast days are hard. Very hard. I know that there is a lot of schar for people who fast.
Hashem, I’m doing it for YOU. YOU are in pain that your children can’t come home. I’m crying and suffering with my FATHER.
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taketwo
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Thu, Jul 06 2023, 5:34 pm
As a seminary girl I was given a heter not to fast just because I was on antibiotics.
Women would rather be a martyr than just ask. It's not like Tishabav and YK. If you don't have 100% strength you just ask.
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