Strangers, please don't talk to kids!!

amother

Mintgreen ↓

Fri, May 19 2023, 4:18 am

Don’t agree OP

What about ‘stranger’ kids who knock on my door to collect money for their school bikeathon? I make small talk with them
Ie ask their name & what grade they’re in.

They don’t know me at all!

If you teach your kid to never ever talk to frum strangers you’re creating snobby unfriendly kids.

crust

Fri, May 19 2023, 4:43 am

Did something happen OP?

Because this looks like an overreaction to a normal situation.

We cannot really control the world by coming up with new ways to prevent things from happening.

Things will happen as Hashem orchestrates them.

An adult asking a child where Berger lives is a normal part of a functional world and this is how God meant for it to be.

Most people don't have bad intentions and you can't live your life in fear of the small percent that does have bad intentions.

You know why you can't live in fear?

Because it doesn't help.

Most creepy things happen to children in their own homes.

Most creepy things do not happen when a child takes a hitch.

Have I heard stories that happened with creeps on the street or when hitching?

Oh. Of course.

But they are a minority and it isn't called hishtadlos to try to avoid that just like you wouldn't tell a child to not cross the street.

You teach them how to cross the street.

We can only do our regular hishtadlos which is giving our children proper guidance.

If you think I'm lax and that I am not aware I want to tell you that when my sons were younger I always joined this bandwagon of "no hitches oh these negligent mothers that let their children take hitches."

And then my sons became bochurim.
And hitching is part of that package.
And I realized I am fighting city hall.

So I did my research and then I sat down with them and I gave them guidelines for safe hitching.

And it isn't perfect.
Because we don't live in a perfect world.

And every day we need to daven and grieve our inability to protect our children more than is humanly possible.

The end.

amother

Steel

Fri, May 19 2023, 4:54 am

amother Latte wrote:

Disagree.
It’s their official mode of transportation in monsey.
The parents definitely know and are comfortable with it.
I spoke about it irl.
They are naive and trusting.

Sorry . I live in Monsey and I do not allow my kids to hitch. I’ve asked them rather to take taxis , get a ride with a friends parent , or use their bike. So if my DS hitches, it’s completely behind my back. But I don’t think he does.

bigsis144 ↓

Fri, May 19 2023, 5:00 am

I think it’s much easier to try and enforce huge “gedarim”, but that actually reduces a person’s internal compass of what is right and wrong.

Hashem said “don’t eat from the tree”, and Adam is criticized for telling Chava not to touch it.

I think we do our children a disservice by cutting them off from normal “it takes a village” interactions.

It’s creepy and dangerous when kids play with kids that are a different age from them.
It’s creepy and dangerous when a stranger asks which door in the complex belongs to the Goldberg family.
It’s overstepping boundaries when a strange mom at the park asks your child to move so her child could reach the slide - she should have gone to the parent to be the intermediary.

We end up with such tiny definitions of what is “appropriate” behavior this way.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, May 19 2023, 5:01 am

amother Mintgreen wrote:

Why? Why do you make small talk to kids and ask personal questions? I don't think that's necessary.
And a stranger being "frum" doesn't make them less of stranger, it's no different than non frum strangers.
I don't need my kids to be friendly with adults they don't know. Bh they're far from snobby and unfriendly. One has nothing to do with the other.
It's one thing to say to adults "hello, please, thank you, have a nice day...." and the like. An adult making small talk and asking personal questions, is a different thing.

amother

↑ Gold ↓

Fri, May 19 2023, 5:05 am

amother OP wrote:

So when a kid comes to my door collecting I ask name and where they live if they are new to the neighborhood etc. so when I see my kid playing with them I know all information how do your kids play in the neighborhood everyone was a stranger. Yes your very over the top I really hope your kids don’t suffer in the future

Highstrung ↓

Fri, May 19 2023, 5:08 am

amother OP wrote:

I don't think so, especially if it comes along with "do you live here?" Most horror stories start with innocent questions such as those.

Sometimes you need to ask such questions to protect the safety of a child. I’ll give you an example :
DH was driving and saw a young child on the side of the road in Monsey. He was crying . He was on a road that didn’t have many Jewish homes and at least not walking distance. But the “don’t ask the child if he lives here “ rule popped into his head and he felt completely lost as to what to do. The kid was obviously in distress and needed help.
I can’t recall exact details of what happened but DH rolled down his window and handed him his cell phone and asked do you need to call someone? The boy nodded and used the phone. The boy ended up being picked up by his father .DH waited there the whole time in his car until the boy was picked up. Apparently the parent dropped him off at an incorrect address. He was phoneless and completely lost and had no way of getting help unless DH intervened .

Last edited by Highstrung on Fri, May 19 2023, 6:10 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, May 19 2023, 5:10 am

amother Gold wrote:

My kids play with neighbors on the block that we know, not with random kids that go collecting....
And if I see my kids playing with a new kid, I ask my kids who they are, I don't interrogate the other kid.
Though kids generally play with kids on the block, they don't walk to other areas to play.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, May 19 2023, 5:11 am

Highstrung wrote:

Sometimes you need to ask such questions to protect the safety of a child. I’ll give you an example :
DH was driving and so a young child on the side of the road in Monsey. He was crying . He was on a road that didn’t have many Jewish homes and at least not walking distance. But the “don’t ask the child if he lives here “ rule popped into his head and he felt completely lost as to what to do. The kid was obviously in distress and needed help.
I can’t recall exact details of what happened but DH rolled down his window and handed him his cell phone and asked do you need to call someone? The boy nodded and used the phone. The boy ended up being picked up by his father .DH waited there the whole time in his car until the boy was picked up. Apparently the parent dropped him off at an incorrect address. He was phoneless and completely lost and had no way of getting help unless DH intervened .

This is an entire different situation. The child was lost. He didn't stop to talk to a random child playing outside or waiting for the bus. This is totally different.

↑ Highstrung ↓

Fri, May 19 2023, 5:13 am

amother OP wrote:

This is an entire different situation. The child was lost. He didn't stop to talk to a random child playing outside or waiting for the bus. This is totally different.

But he had no way of knowing if the child was lost. The child was standing in front of a house on the street on the corner . He could’ve lived on that block. The only difference is that he had tears in his eyes.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, May 19 2023, 5:22 am

Highstrung wrote:

So the boy was obviously in distress.

↑ bigsis144 ↓

Fri, May 19 2023, 5:24 am

amother OP wrote:

Why? Why do you make small talk to kids and ask personal questions? I don't think that's necessary.
…
I don't need my kids to be friendly with adults they don't know. Bh they're far from snobby and unfriendly. One has nothing to do with the other.
It's one thing to say to adults "hello, please, thank you, have a nice day...." and the like. An adult making small talk and asking personal questions, is a different thing.

Is it the power differential that bothers you?

That an adult’s power will always be imbalanced with that of a child, so that relationship or interaction is inherently unsafe?

The default is “adults are unsafe”, with only a few exceptions like parents, police officers, etc? And any positive interaction with a stranger is starting a downhill roll toward blind trust?

—

Or, like others have said, is it better to separate the person from the interaction?

You can have positive interactions with strangers - 12 year old me used to do card tricks for the librarian when I returned my magic books (I got my overdue fine cancelled that way 😆. I was a cheeky kid!). I am grateful to the person in line next to me at the museum who asked my antsy 5 year old about his favorite dinosaur and helped prevent a meltdown.

Kids are people too, and it’s an important social/developmental step to them feeling like they also have power in an interaction, rather than being passive and needing constant guidance and intervention and supervision.

↑ Highstrung ↓

Fri, May 19 2023, 5:26 am

amother OP wrote:

So the boy was obviously in distress.

If your daughter was waiting on the corner for her school bus but she had tears in her eyes because she was upset about something that just happened at home (unbeknownst to anybody) , you would have been upset if someone stopped their car to ask her if she lives here and if she needs help. Just based on what you wrote above.

amother

↑ Latte ↓

Fri, May 19 2023, 5:29 am

amother Steel wrote:

Same here.
But I know many others who are fine with it.
Crust just wrote on top that she’s fine with it and many others are as well.

amother

Buttercup ↓

Fri, May 19 2023, 5:30 am

OP, im sorry, you have it wrong. Youre teaching your kids (and telling us) that adults making small talk with kids is wrong-and the kids should not engage, because you cant tell who is a creep and who isnt. Well yes duh. People engaging in non creepy behavior (small talk) will not be identifiable as a creep or non creep.
What you need to do is teach your kids how to identify creepy behavior and requests. The dufference between small talk and dangerous talk.
You teach your kids not to give personal identifying information.
You teach your kids never ever to follow a stranger anywhere.
You teach your kids about personal body safety.
You do not teach your kids to regard a stranger complimenting their project or asking for directions as a creep. That is normal behavior, and they shohld be able to recognize it as such.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, May 19 2023, 5:31 am

bigsis144 wrote:

You were with the child! That's all the difference!

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, May 19 2023, 5:32 am

amother Buttercup wrote:

Of course I teach my kids this.
But it has to be the other way around too. So many here think it's ok for an adult to ask a random kid their name or where they live, that's personal questions, not small talk.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, May 19 2023, 5:33 am

Highstrung wrote:

We need to use our common sense. If a child looks in distress and they may need help, yes, ask the child if they need help. If they say no, then just go on without asking further questions or prying.

amother

↑ Gold ↓

Fri, May 19 2023, 5:40 am

amother OP wrote:

We need to use our common sense. If a child looks in distress and they may need help, yes, ask the child if they need help. If they say no, then just go on without asking further questions or prying.

And what if this kid was just s-xually abused and his abuser was coming out of the house in a minute if you ask questions you might be able to save a child.