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amother
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 Sat, Feb 18 2023, 8:57 pm
I don't think Aryeh told his father first. I think he left a note or a message that the father intercepted, or just told his father that he couldn't come that night, and the father said something like, "Spending more time at home now with the baby?" and Aryeh said, "Yes, that's the stage of life I'm in now." And the father is using it.
What was very telling to me is the sheer terror Bella has when she realizes her husband is home. She doesn't gird herself for a fight, she runs. She fights when cornered. She strikes me as a woman who gave into emotional attacks for a long time,and one day decided to fight back and fights hard. But she genuinely believes leaving would be the worst for everybody, so she stays, and leans on her oldest because he has been offering for ages.
This story to me is an indication of what can happen to a woman who stays in a bad marriage for so long that to manage, she changes into a person who may in the end have the worse pathology. And the damage to the kid can end up worse or at least really bad because of her actions, but she got that way because of what was happening to her. She's the one with the kids all the time, and her mindset has a huge impact.
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amother
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Sat, Feb 18 2023, 9:09 pm
| amother Dimgray wrote: | I don't think Aryeh told his father first. I think he left a note or a message that the father intercepted, or just told his father that he couldn't come that night, and the father said something like, "Spending more time at home now with the baby?" and Aryeh said, "Yes, that's the stage of life I'm in now." And the father is using it.
What was very telling to me is the sheer terror Bella has when she realizes her husband is home. She doesn't gird herself for a fight, she runs. She fights when cornered. She strikes me as a woman who gave into emotional attacks for a long time,and one day decided to fight back and fights hard. But she genuinely believes leaving would be the worst for everybody, so she stays, and leans on her oldest because he has been offering for ages.
This story to me is an indication of what can happen to a woman who stays in a bad marriage for so long that to manage, she changes into a person who may in the end have the worse pathology. And the damage to the kid can end up worse or at least really bad because of her actions, but she got that way because of what was happening to her. She's the one with the kids all the time, and her mindset has a huge impact. |
I agree very much. She was scared for her life the way she made a beeline for the basement believing its the only place he usually doesn't follow her The father was gloating almost until the end, when he dropped
The bombshell about aryeh not coming. He was not scared, nor left without a nasty comeback at every point in the conversation.
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DREAMING
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Sat, Feb 18 2023, 9:18 pm
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To me it sounded like she (Aryeh’s mother) came from a super troubled background and brought that trauma into her marriage
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amother
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Sat, Feb 18 2023, 9:27 pm
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Ok, I just reread this week's chapter. Yes, the father is being extremely mean and is a very difficult person. He is definitely not blameless. So I take back what I wrote in my earlier post saying that Bella was the problem more than him. I think they are both toxic and both a problem. It seems like they've both become entrenched in a very bad pattern of arguing and attacking each other. I would be curious to see a flashback of how their marriage started. Did he start out by attacking her and she responded this way, or did she respond badly to things he said and keep on telling him he is a bully and abusive and he got more and more obnoxious as sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. I think they are both acting terribly and are in major need of therapy themselves!!
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amother
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Sat, Feb 18 2023, 9:36 pm
| amother Nemesia wrote: | | Ok, I just reread this week's chapter. Yes, the father is being extremely mean and is a very difficult person. He is definitely not blameless. So I take back what I wrote in my earlier post saying that Bella was the problem more than him. I think they are both toxic and both a problem. It seems like they've both become entrenched in a very bad pattern of arguing and attacking each other. I would be curious to see a flashback of how their marriage started. Did he start out by attacking her and she responded this way, or did she respond badly to things he said and keep on telling him he is a bully and abusive and he got more and more obnoxious as sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. I think they are both acting terribly and are in major need of therapy themselves!! |
But if Bella would have been the instigator why would she make a run for it as soon as she realized her Husband is home? And how exactly does one respond to such a verbal attack? To me it seems like her response was borne out of years of being abused and ultimately turned her into an abusive person too. Just a different kind of ‘ ‘ism.’
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amother
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Sat, Feb 18 2023, 9:38 pm
| amother Nemesia wrote: | I don't think the father is exactly nice, but he is not a monster either. It sounds like he is a difficult person (remember that a number of weeks back Miri mentioned to Mrs Teighman that he yelled at Bella for burning the challah). So he is definitely not as evil or abusive as Bella
paints him to be. I think it is very telling that Aryeh told his father first that he is going to be distancing himself from Bella. That would seem to indicate that there is more to the father than an abusive monster. If that were the case, Aryeh would have little or nothing to do with him and would certainly not have told him first about a major decision like that... |
But doesn't Aryeh think he's very abusive?
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amother
Oak
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Sat, Feb 18 2023, 9:39 pm
Aryeh's father is horrible. Absolutely horrible. His mother is a long-suffering victim.
This weeks episode almost gave me a panic attack. It hit way too close to home for me.
As a woman whose husband is cruel (at home only of course so the rest of the world thinks he is a tzaddik), and has spoken to me so harshly, I can relate to Aryeh's mother so much unfortunately. When a wife feels scared when her husband comes into the house at a time that he isn't usually home and retreats into her own space as fast as she can to get away from her husband, (speaking from sad experience as I have felt this way so many many times) that is a really really bad sign.
Aryeh's father is a major bully and it is not surprising that Bella has become co-dependent on her oldest child. That is something that I have fought so hard to avoid from happening to me and my oldest child. It would be so easy to confide in my oldest and rely on her for everything, but it would not be good for her at all.
My kids are not stupid. They all know that Tatty is not nice to Mommy and only cares about his own feelings and nobody else's. None of them have much of a relationship with their Tatty. But I try so hard not to let them know all the small details of how I am treated.
I feel so much sadness for Bella. Her life is lonely and sad. She is mistreated by her husband and is scared to get out of her marriage because of her worry about shidduchim for her kids and possibly her worry about managing financially if divorced. (I can so relate to both of those concerns) There are probably some times that their marriage is not so dire, but mostly probably awful. (worse than mine from the sound of things) She does not know the joy of spending time with a loving spouse. She probably spends her life trying to do damage control.
100% she is the victim here. It is hurting me to see posters blame her for any of it.
If you have not been in a loveless marriage where your spouse coming home at the end of the day makes you shake and shudder, then you will never understand why I am saying that.
I hope there are not many other women out there living the way I am.
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amother
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Sat, Feb 18 2023, 9:47 pm
| amother Oak wrote: | Aryeh's father is horrible. Absolutely horrible. His mother is a long-suffering victim.
This weeks episode almost gave me a panic attack. It hit way too close to home for me.
As a woman whose husband is cruel (at home only of course so the rest of the world thinks he is a tzaddik), and has spoken to me so harshly, I can relate to Aryeh's mother so much unfortunately. When a wife feels scared when her husband comes into the house at a time that he isn't usually home and retreats into her own space as fast as she can to get away from her husband, (speaking from sad experience as I have felt this way so many many times) that is a really really bad sign.
Aryeh's father is a major bully and it is not surprising that Bella has become co-dependent on her oldest child. That is something that I have fought so hard to avoid from happening to me and my oldest child. It would be so easy to confide in my oldest and rely on her for everything, but it would not be good for her at all.
My kids are not stupid. They all know that Tatty is not nice to Mommy and only cares about his own feelings and nobody else's. None of them have much of a relationship with their Tatty. But I try so hard not to let them know all the small details of how I am treated.
I feel so much sadness for Bella. Her life is lonely and sad. She is mistreated by her husband and is scared to get out of her marriage because of her worry about shidduchim for her kids and possibly her worry about managing financially if divorced. (I can so relate to both of those concerns) There are probably some times that their marriage is not so dire, but mostly probably awful. (worse than mine from the sound of things) She does not know the joy of spending time with a loving spouse. She probably spends her life trying to do damage control.
100% she is the victim here. It is hurting me to see posters blame her for any of it.
If you have not been in a loveless marriage where your spouse coming home at the end of the day makes you shake and shudder, then you will never understand why I am saying that.
I hope there are not many other women out there living the way I am. |
I agree with every word.
May Hashem send you lots of koach and may you only see yiddish nachas from Your children. Sending you all the hugs in the world.
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amother
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Sat, Feb 18 2023, 9:58 pm
| amother Oak wrote: | Aryeh's father is horrible. Absolutely horrible. His mother is a long-suffering victim.
This weeks episode almost gave me a panic attack. It hit way too close to home for me.
As a woman whose husband is cruel (at home only of course so the rest of the world thinks he is a tzaddik), and has spoken to me so harshly, I can relate to Aryeh's mother so much unfortunately. When a wife feels scared when her husband comes into the house at a time that he isn't usually home and retreats into her own space as fast as she can to get away from her husband, (speaking from sad experience as I have felt this way so many many times) that is a really really bad sign.
Aryeh's father is a major bully and it is not surprising that Bella has become co-dependent on her oldest child. That is something that I have fought so hard to avoid from happening to me and my oldest child. It would be so easy to confide in my oldest and rely on her for everything, but it would not be good for her at all.
My kids are not stupid. They all know that Tatty is not nice to Mommy and only cares about his own feelings and nobody else's. None of them have much of a relationship with their Tatty. But I try so hard not to let them know all the small details of how I am treated.
I feel so much sadness for Bella. Her life is lonely and sad. She is mistreated by her husband and is scared to get out of her marriage because of her worry about shidduchim for her kids and possibly her worry about managing financially if divorced. (I can so relate to both of those concerns) There are probably some times that their marriage is not so dire, but mostly probably awful. (worse than mine from the sound of things) She does not know the joy of spending time with a loving spouse. She probably spends her life trying to do damage control.
100% she is the victim here. It is hurting me to see posters blame her for any of it.
If you have not been in a loveless marriage where your spouse coming home at the end of the day makes you shake and shudder, then you will never understand why I am saying that.
I hope there are not many other women out there living the way I am. |
I am so sorry for the pain you are living with. Hashem should give you the koach to continue to be a strong person and to be there for your kids. And may Hashem send you a yeshuah.
And please forgive me if I caused u any pain by what I wrote.
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amother
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Sat, Feb 18 2023, 10:20 pm
| amother Oak wrote: | Aryeh's father is horrible. Absolutely horrible. His mother is a long-suffering victim.
This weeks episode almost gave me a panic attack. It hit way too close to home for me.
As a woman whose husband is cruel (at home only of course so the rest of the world thinks he is a tzaddik), and has spoken to me so harshly, I can relate to Aryeh's mother so much unfortunately. When a wife feels scared when her husband comes into the house at a time that he isn't usually home and retreats into her own space as fast as she can to get away from her husband, (speaking from sad experience as I have felt this way so many many times) that is a really really bad sign.
Aryeh's father is a major bully and it is not surprising that Bella has become co-dependent on her oldest child. That is something that I have fought so hard to avoid from happening to me and my oldest child. It would be so easy to confide in my oldest and rely on her for everything, but it would not be good for her at all.
My kids are not stupid. They all know that Tatty is not nice to Mommy and only cares about his own feelings and nobody else's. None of them have much of a relationship with their Tatty. But I try so hard not to let them know all the small details of how I am treated.
I feel so much sadness for Bella. Her life is lonely and sad. She is mistreated by her husband and is scared to get out of her marriage because of her worry about shidduchim for her kids and possibly her worry about managing financially if divorced. (I can so relate to both of those concerns) There are probably some times that their marriage is not so dire, but mostly probably awful. (worse than mine from the sound of things) She does not know the joy of spending time with a loving spouse. She probably spends her life trying to do damage control.
100% she is the victim here. It is hurting me to see posters blame her for any of it.
If you have not been in a loveless marriage where your spouse coming home at the end of the day makes you shake and shudder, then you will never understand why I am saying that.
I hope there are not many other women out there living the way I am. |
Yes, I understand and agree with what you wrote.
We (us abused women in very complicated marriages) try to show a strong front to our children because that’s what’s best for them. That’s the difference between what we do and what Aryeh‘s mother has been doing.
My children will probably be shocked one day when they realize that their father did not put my name on our house. Instead he has only his name and a trust. I guess then they’ll realize how complicated things have been but there’s no need to get them involved now. Let them live somewhat normal lives even though every day is abnormal for me.
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amother
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Sun, Feb 19 2023, 12:36 am
| amother Oak wrote: | Aryeh's father is horrible. Absolutely horrible. His mother is a long-suffering victim.
This weeks episode almost gave me a panic attack. It hit way too close to home for me.
As a woman whose husband is cruel (at home only of course so the rest of the world thinks he is a tzaddik), and has spoken to me so harshly, I can relate to Aryeh's mother so much unfortunately. When a wife feels scared when her husband comes into the house at a time that he isn't usually home and retreats into her own space as fast as she can to get away from her husband, (speaking from sad experience as I have felt this way so many many times) that is a really really bad sign.
Aryeh's father is a major bully and it is not surprising that Bella has become co-dependent on her oldest child. That is something that I have fought so hard to avoid from happening to me and my oldest child. It would be so easy to confide in my oldest and rely on her for everything, but it would not be good for her at all.
My kids are not stupid. They all know that Tatty is not nice to Mommy and only cares about his own feelings and nobody else's. None of them have much of a relationship with their Tatty. But I try so hard not to let them know all the small details of how I am treated.
I feel so much sadness for Bella. Her life is lonely and sad. She is mistreated by her husband and is scared to get out of her marriage because of her worry about shidduchim for her kids and possibly her worry about managing financially if divorced. (I can so relate to both of those concerns) There are probably some times that their marriage is not so dire, but mostly probably awful. (worse than mine from the sound of things) She does not know the joy of spending time with a loving spouse. She probably spends her life trying to do damage control.
100% she is the victim here. It is hurting me to see posters blame her for any of it.
If you have not been in a loveless marriage where your spouse coming home at the end of the day makes you shake and shudder, then you will never understand why I am saying that.
I hope there are not many other women out there living the way I am. |
Would you dare talk to your husband that way though?
Her speech was very daring towards an abuser.
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amother
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Sun, Feb 19 2023, 12:57 am
| amother Crystal wrote: | Would you dare talk to your husband that way though?
Her speech was very daring towards an abuser. |
I did.
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giftedmom
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Sun, Feb 19 2023, 5:35 am
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There is clearly a back n forth old dynamic going on here regardless of how their marriage started out. Bella passed on the abuse instead of facing it. It’s a common coping mechanism of the older generation.
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amother
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Sun, Feb 19 2023, 7:14 am
| amother Nemesia wrote: | I don't think the father is exactly nice, but he is not a monster either. It sounds like he is a difficult person (remember that a number of weeks back Miri mentioned to Mrs Teighman that he yelled at Bella for burning the challah). So he is definitely not as evil or abusive as Bella
paints him to be. I think it is very telling that Aryeh told his father first that he is going to be distancing himself from Bella. That would seem to indicate that there is more to the father than an abusive monster. If that were the case, Aryeh would have little or nothing to do with him and would certainly not have told him first about a major decision like that... |
When their baby was born, Aryeh let slip for a second that he was very angry that his father didn't use his connections to help them in the hospital, like he helps everyone else.
It's not as simple as you're all making it out to be. This man is definitely no saint at all.
ETA And in one of the earlier installments, his friend was telling him that he needs to discuss his home situation with someone, and he said there's no way he can blow his father's cover. Nothing at all about his mother.
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amother
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Sun, Feb 19 2023, 7:18 am
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What I think is strange in this story is that this is the first time we heard a conversation with Aryehs father. Until now we were always left to wonder about him. This is the first chapter where he’s talking to his wife so we’ll have to get to know him better and observe the dynamics between them without being left to guess.
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amother
Geranium
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Sun, Feb 19 2023, 7:32 am
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And I am just so curious as to whatever conversation took place in the car as Mrs. Teigman got a rode home with miri's mom!!
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amother
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Sun, Feb 19 2023, 8:00 am
The dynamic of the father and mother is very confusing.
Could be the father felt left out and outnumbered from Bella and Aryeh as a team. Which made his bullying even worse.
He sounds nasty, but not as bad as parts of the story made him seem.
Maybe Bella couldn't ever handle any criticism, even benign, from him. And it made her withdraw. Which made him become a predator.
I, for one, am confused...
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amother
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Sun, Feb 19 2023, 8:02 am
| amother Blueberry wrote: | The dynamic of the father and mother is very confusing.
Could be the father felt left out and outnumbered from Bella and Aryeh as a team. Which made his bullying even worse.
He sounds nasty, but not as bad as parts of the story made him seem.
Maybe Bella couldn't ever handle any criticism, even benign, from him. And it made her withdraw. Which made him become a predator.
I, for one, am confused... |
We’re really all confused because this is the first time we heard him speak in the whole story
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amother
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Sun, Feb 19 2023, 8:05 am
Its fascinating to me to see how many posters automatically assumed Aryeh's mother was the one at fault.
Internalized misogyny at its best....
(And I see this a lot IRL as well, not just in this fictionalized serial).
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amother
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Sun, Feb 19 2023, 8:08 am
| amother Jetblack wrote: | Its fascinating to me to see how many posters automatically assumed Aryeh's mother was the one at fault.
Internalized misogyny at its best....
(And I see this a lot IRL as well, not just in this fictionalized serial). |
Many of us didn't assume.
The author wanted us to think that way.
I wasn't sure the whole time.
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