For all those jealous of the poor—peaceful discussion please

↑ Trademark ↓

Wed, Jan 11 2023, 8:19 pm

amother Sunflower wrote:

I didn't write any posts judging those who hire cleaning ladies. My posts were explaining why some people can't. Because there is poor and then there is "poor." And anyone who is truly poor or who has ever been truly poor knows the difference. And they know the truth, when a person is really poor they don't splurge on anything. And if you are truly poor then, yes. A cleaning lady is a splurge. If you aren't truly poor then you can shift things around to cover it.
It goes back to the tuna vs chicken dinner. Sure, if you usually serve chicken by all means cut back and eat tuna to be able to afford your cleaner. But if you were anyways only eating tuna, you don't have where to cut back. So you keep eating tuna and you do your own cleaning.
And that doesn't make you unhealthy or frugal or making choices to be so. That's just you doing what you need to do.

I feel like we are talking past each other.

I never said that you wrote judgmental posts.

I was referring in general to some posts on this thread, not a specific poster.

I wasn't talking in my post about poor people and what decisions they have to make at all.

I was saying that people should stop judging others for their spending habits, that's all.

I was referring to the type of post below.

amother Pearl wrote:

Don't buy cans of soda or any drinks in a restaurant. Havent done that in over 25 years. Get tap water for free or bring the food home and use your own drinks. I have no pity for anyone who buys drinks at eateries.

The attitude that someone else who doesn't have money can never enjoy a soda in a restaurant is something I find abhorrent. The attitude that if you say you're poor, you can never ever splurge even on the smallest of things, otherwise I don't have pity.

amother

↑ Sunflower

Wed, Jan 11 2023, 8:25 pm

Trademark wrote:

This (extreme) attitude is exactly what I'm referring to.

If it's a choice between never going out for pizza, ever vs being able to afford pizza for your kids once or twice a year as long as you keep the cost as low as possible by not getting sodas, I don't see that as extreme. I see that as people making do

That's how I grew up btw. My parents would splurge on pizza or fast food before Pesach, let's say, but no, they didn't get us drinks. Or maybe we'd take it out and buy a big bottle of sods from the grocery store instead of individuak drinks. Because they didn't have the extra few dollars at that time of year especially. They budgeted for that pizza as part of their pesach expenditures. They weren't being cheap just to be cheap.

It's not exactly a newsflash that some people can't afford to go out to restaurants. Plenty of people don't because they can't. That's what you just don't seem to be getting.

amother

Diamond ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 2:25 am

Newsflash: we are truly poor, yet:
For years we didn't take cleaning help, lived like paupers, purchased the bear minimum, no take out food...
I felt extremely depleted and deprived.

It came to a point where I felt at the verge of getting a nervous break down.
After discussing with Daas Torah, we made a Decision to live just rely on Hashems mercy to provide our needs and wants and started taking in as much help as I need for my sanity. If I feel sick or have an excruciatingly busy day and don't get to make dinner, we have older kids/teenagers who need a normal meal, we will purchase take out food.
We moved to a larger apartment, to accommodate our family size, praying that Hashem will provide the funds we need.

Though we are still in the very poor bracket, We bh cover those needs somehow.

Though we dont splurge much, Living the way we were, effects everyone's sanity, it's not a normal life.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 6:12 am

amother Molasses wrote:

Um... if you are in New York you are eligible for help to pay the electricity bill (I think it's called USF). And lol, I didn't own a car at the time so no car insurance!!!! Owning a car is a choice (especially in New York) just as much as a cleaning lady is.

I agree that owning a car is a choice in NY but not always is that so. Of you need to go to a chasuna want /need to travel to lakewood etc chol hamoed (free) trips... etc.. there Re times you eventually need one.. and what about the day your kid wakes up late to school or a day where there is no bus Transportation..
I didn't calculate the numbers but I don't think by cab you would save more..

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 6:16 am

amother Buttercup wrote:

I have a daughter with a disability. When we were poor we qualified for SSI. Now we make too much money.

The SSI check was a lump sum every month we could use for HER needs. If she needed any type of equipment, a special toy, educational materials, a tutor--whatever would help her, we could get. Now we don't have that money and can't afford to cover it ourselves. So that means we just do without.

Is it fair that my daughter should lose out just becuase we make above the limit to qualify for SSI?

that is really not fair. If someone has their own disability their benefits should definitely not be deducted because the family is making over the limit (unless the family is making so much which that can be debated too or they are actually working with their Disability which means 9n a sense they are bot disabled)

amother

Mimosa

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 6:22 am

amother Pearl wrote:

Real poverty means that your family members are going to bed hungry and you are buying your clothes at the salvation army.

I'm not on any programs. We get our clothes at Deja New or some other place that sells reused cloths in good condition. We buy food on Sundays from the places that sell Shabbos food at fifty percent off due to financial pressure.

While I'm standing in line I see the women online before me in nice new cloths using their EBT cards for things I could never afford.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 6:24 am

amother Pearl wrote:

I couldn't agree more on this after the incident (I think a can costs like 1.75 now) . The question is how would buying drinks at home help.. at home we mostly drink filtered water .. and hardly ever (the last time I recall was two pesachs ago) buy big bottled soda (health and inflation) , the only other choice would be that we get 12 pack cans of coke if that is what you are referring to..
(I remember the days 2 liters or 1 and half liters was 99c on sale and 1.29 reg price at 99 cent stores I really have no clue how much it costs now)

amother

↑ Molasses ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 6:27 am

amother Mimosa wrote:

Its not just the frum community, I see plenty of well dressed women paying with EBT in shop rite as well. And I'm not even saying they weren't actually eligible.

People here have a funny idea of what poverty looks like, here in the US. And yes, it IS harder in the frum community where we have much higher expenses (tuition, kosher food).

amother

↑ Stone ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 7:52 am

amother OP wrote:

Not to veer off topic but in most restaurants a soft drink costs $3.00 because you are not just paying for the can but generally for a glass and service. You are also paying tax on that as well as a 20% tip because it is taxable and you tip on the total of the order. So that $3.00 soda is actual $3.50 about tax and tip (at least in NYC)

You can buy cans of soda far less expensively if you wait for sales. Honestly I can't imagine bringing cans of soda to a restaurant because that would be incredibly tacky but I did bring drinks from home to work because the cost would be 50 cents versus $1.00 at the vending machine.

I think there is a tendency for people to minimize the impact of these kinds of small cost savings on one's overall budget.

amother

↑ Celeste

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 7:59 am

amother OP wrote:

I don't have a car in NY. We take car services or rent for long distance trips, sparingly. Definitely cheaper than owning a car.
Chol hamoed trips, there is a subway. School is close enough to walk to. (I pay my head off for preschool busing btw, it's not free.) If a simcha is too far, we don't go.

amother

↑ Stone ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 8:00 am

I realize this is a bit tangential but the current Medicaid income eligibility for someone over 65 is $934 for a single person and $1367 for a married couple - or $11,208 for a single person or $16,404.

Am I missing something because if someone is actually attempting to support themselves on those incomes they are so below the level that ANYONE (not just frum) would need just for basics of food and rent that their life is wretchedly poor - cat food would be a gourmet item for their diet. Sad

Anyone who worked or whose spouse worked would be receiving Social Security payments in excess of that amount per month.

I am not familiar first hand with Medicaid so if I am wrong and somehow there are higher income levels for senior eligibility let me know.

I understand that children are eligible at higher income levels and that families with children as well since family size is taken into consideration but I am looking at the income eligibility requirements for regular seniors which seem to require an income that is below even "poverty"

amother

↑ Seablue ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 8:34 am

amother Stone wrote:

They already get medicare

amother

↑ Stone ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 8:40 am

amother Seablue wrote:

They already get medicare

I don't understand this as a response

Medicare costs some amount of money each month as the government deducts a certain premium from Social Security checks. Wealthy people actually pay quite a bit for the Medicare.

In addition most people purchase a Medigap policy and the best Medigap policies about about $2500 a year.

Some lower income seniors on Medicare opt for the "Advantage" plans but those are essentially HMO with limited networks - same issues as other HMO's have and most seniors I know opt for traditional Medicare if they can afford it.

My question was related to people stating that seniors on Medicaid could get home health care attendants 24/7 and based on who would even begin to qualify for Medicaid as a senior, that must be a small universe of wretchedly poor old people.

I was asking whether I was missing something in terms of more affluent seniors being eligible for Medicaid because of discussions regarding putting "assets" in a Trust. While I could see someone theoretically owning a home which is an "asset" it is hard to imagine that there are other assets like stocks since these would also generate income for the most part.

mikayla18 ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2023, 8:56 am

I didnt read all of this thread but definitly read a significant amount. I'm curious if anyone realizes the effect this had on the "younger" generation ie: people who got married in the last 5 years. My friends want to have A) not as many kids b) more spread out kids for this reason. And Baruch Hashem, I would put us in the "drop above middle" class solely because none of us have tuition yet (but we have babysitters etc). But we're not looking to struggle, it's too hard. And we want to go on vacation and not have to worry about it being only on points or only once every time I win a Chinese auction (never lol). And ofc parnassah comes from Hashem, but Hashem promises parnassah if you give maaser etc-He doesn't promise trips to Bali and Dubai lol. The Norm has shifted so astronomically and prices have gone up so much, the rich get richer (cuz they can still do vacations etc) and the poor are still wondering how they're they're going to spend 1/3 of an hour of work on a dozen eggs. I think the lifestyle shift of everyone is shifting subconsciously and I'm curious to see where it ends up