If your child went off the derech

↑ gryp ↓

Tue, Feb 08 2005, 3:46 pm

from the article Motek brought above in chinuch/education:

Quote:

If there are younger siblings at home that are being adversely affected, or the open confrontations with you have reached the impossible stage, try having him live with a relative or family friend to give both of you more space. Even so, it is absolutely essential to let him know that you’re not writing him off. Make him understand that although you love him, he is not the only consideration in your family picture.

shaina punim

Thu, Oct 06 2005, 11:18 pm

keep them at home, at least they r doing smething in the home .Always show love, if u send them away u r showing them u dont love them(u can say it a million times , wount hear it)unless a drug or alcohol prob. send for help. always except them and let them know it. I went off for a while and its importent to know ur parents r there, if u send a child away they can get wourst then they r now.

su7kids

Mon, Oct 10 2005, 4:06 am

haven't posted for ages, however this is personal.

I have a now 18 yo son who is "exploring" a little bit. It pains me to see him go the ways he is going, and that he is rejecting the way we raised him.

However, I will NEVER kick him out (unless he doesn't pay board and lodging, now that he's working! -- joking!). He is my son as much as my other children are my children. I love him, and I respect his desire to "explore". So far he hasn't done that much that is inappropriate, and the love he feels from his siblings, I believe is keeping him eating Kosher and keeping Shabbos, even though he doesn't seem to be putting on Tefillin or wearing tzitzis anymore.

I do believe that his siblings have accepted him, and not chosen to go "his" way (ok, they're all older, my baby is 13), but don't we learn from our own Rebbe about loving every Jew?

My cousin went through a similar thing with one of her boys and he said to her, point blank "you care more about other people than you do about me" when she told him to put on a yarmulka when he went into the street cos of what others might say! It was a major eye opener.

No kid of mine will become unwelcome in my house.

↑ gryp

Mon, Oct 10 2005, 12:27 pm

sarahd, you posted that on the last page Wink

su7kids- im sorry for your pain and all the worry you must be going through. if its any comfort, I see many times that a normal child who was brought up well and decides to go "off" will eventually come back given a few years. I know "years" sounds like a long time but in the span of a lifetime, it isnt really. the only worrisome part really, is how low they will fall before they pick themselves up again and decide what they really want to do with their life. once theyve hit their "rock bottom" and start to come back, the nachas you experience is tremendous.
I wish you and your son luck as he goes through finding out who he really is. and you should have much nachas from him.

shanie5

Mon, Oct 10 2005, 2:05 pm

my sister is off the derech. my parents never threw her out. she ended up moving out to live w/ a guy who she eventually married. we accepted them before and after the marraige. she was unhappy and divorced him.
last year, she married a [gentile]. my parents and all but one sibling did not go to the wedding. now my sister will not talk to my mom, barely to me and the others. she talks to my kids and the sister who did go to the wedding.
she is still welcome in my house, but her spouse is not-that would be going too far for me. it would be like telling my children that it would be ok.
would I ever kick a kid out? I dont know. I dont want to be 'tifach peh lasoton' and be put in a situation that may cause me to even contemplate it. I have learned "never say never" is only too true

JEWISHMAMA

Wed, Oct 12 2005, 4:04 am

rebellious kids usually act out of anger or hurt so if you do throw them out they are only going to get worse (obviously if your Rav says to throw them out he must have a good reason.)
I wouldn´t throw out any of my kids for going off the derech, HV. My sister and brother went off the derech but we still have an excellent relationship with each other.
My sister is married to a [gentile] and he´s a great guy shame he´s not jewish though.
My brother is also living with a goya who is also a great girl but unfortunately not jewish.
My prayer is that they return or if my sister has any kids they return as they will still be jewish.
My sister went to a psycic who told her that her son will be a rabbi... who knows hopefully if they see us they might get interested.

chen

Sun, Oct 30 2005, 2:19 am

I hven't read all the replies, so if I repeat what someone else already posted I apologize.

we shouldn't know from this, but it would depend on circumstances: is the child an adult? is s/he influencing any younger children? is s/he physically endangering them in some way? and how 'off the derech' is off the derech?

absent actual psychological problems, physical endangerment or attempts to influence younger sibs, I would tell an adult child that while living in my house he must follow my house rules. if he wants to smoke or be mechallel shabbos or eat tref or anything else, he cannot do it here.

hey its me

Mon, Nov 14 2005, 10:14 pm

zuncompany wrote:

I just read Against the Wall. It is on this topic and gave us a lot of food for though. Its a novel, but its based on a lot of research and on real boys and families. I highly recommened it.

sara

I actually know two of those boys who the writer interviewed and based the story on!!!!

b'h one of them (my brother-in-laws brother) has fully returned, he was way low on drugs...he was taken in by a very special family who treat him as one of their own!! he just finished a year in yeshivah, davens 3x daily and is a modern but put together frum boy!

I actually went off the derech as a teen, didnt keep shab wore pants etc...
sadly I wish I didnt put my parents and fam through all that hell, but in the end it brought us all closer!

it was a tough time, I remember my married sister closing her door on me bc of the way I was dressed!I was devastated!

my advice to all u moms of teens, I hope ur child never questions yiddishkeit, but if they do as painfull as it might be never turn them away, show them love and care, its the best remedie!!!!!

amother ↓

Tue, Nov 22 2005, 7:19 pm

su7kids wrote:

I have a now 18 yo son who is "exploring" a little bit. It pains me to see him go the ways he is going, and that he is rejecting the way we raised him.

... So far he hasn't done that much that is inappropriate, and the love he feels from his siblings, I believe is keeping him eating Kosher and keeping Shabbos, even though he doesn't seem to be putting on Tefillin or wearing tzitzis anymore.

I found this post of yours su7kids on another forum, from August 2004:

Quote:

My 17 yo has been using the computer. We are a computer savvy family and have about 5 computers in various places in the house, all connected to the internet.

My 17 yo has been sitting in the dining room, next to the front door, using the internet, and today we had strong reason to believe that he is going to very inappropriate places on the Net.

We searched and found out we were right. Now I am honestly at a loss as what to do about it.

I have to go out of town tomorrow, so the routers are coming with me.

Howeve,r there is a question about educating our children so that they behave when we're NOT looking and supervising.

17 years old is a bit old to be sitting there watching everything he does, and I have noticed that when we walk past, he immediately is surfing a sports channel, completely parve.

It has come to light that this boy is also trimming his beard slightly.

I have big concerns. This is a boy who has not yet had success in the Yeshivish education system, and I am SCARED about what his future might hold.

How do I make sure that he doesn't use the internet when he's not home?

How do I impress upon him that this "pas nisht" when it hasn't sunken in until now?

He is, by the way, the only one in our family who does this. I know that for sure.

I'd be very interested to hear your input. I know it is easier with younger kids, and the ones who are not doing anything "wrong" have no problem with me watching what they're doing. Its the "at risk" kid that SCARES me.

please get him help Exclamation

a mashpia who has experience in helping boys like your son ... and oy, the Internet Exploding anger

on five computers Exclamation

rvbubby

Mon, Nov 28 2005, 1:42 am

MY DAUGHTER WENT OFF THE DERECH WHEN SHE WAS A YOUNG TEENAGER. SHE IS A VERY BRIGHT GIRL WHO QUESTIONED HER TEACHERS. ONE OF THE TEACHERS TOLD HER "YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO ASK THAT" INSTEAD OF SAYING "I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER". I THINK THAT WAS THE BEGINNING OF THE END FOR HER YIDDISHKEIT. SHE IS A WONDERFUL PERSON, WITH SOME TERRIFIC MIDOS- ONLY SHE ISN'T FRUM. I NEVER THREW HER OUT OF THE HOUSE. WE ACCEPTED HER FULLY AND LOVINGLY WHILE SETTING BOUNDS FOR HER BEHAVIOR IN AND AROUND THE HOUSE. SHE IS THE MIDDLE CHILD AND I WAS WORRIED ABOUT HER INFLUENCE ON THE YOUNGER SIBLINGS, BUT THEY HAVE REMAINED FRUM. B"H MY KIDS ARE ALL MARRIED. THE PROBLEM CHILD IS STILL A PROBLEM ADULT. (SHE IS 36). EVEN THOUGH SHE IS MARRIED TO A NON-JEW AND WE DID NOT GO TO THE WEDDING (OBVIOUSLY) I STILL LOVE HER DEARLY. SHE HURTS ME NO END SINCE SHE HASN'T SPOKEN TO ME IN OVER A YEAR. HOPEFULLY ONE DAY SHE WILL REALIZE HOW MUCH WE LOVE HER AND SHE WILL COME AROUND-AT LEAST TO SPEAK TO US.
MAY ALL OF YOU ONLY HAVE ONLY YIDDISHE NACHAS FROM ALL OF YOUR CHILDREN.

willow ↓

Mon, Nov 28 2005, 6:29 am

This is a really beautiful story. There was this kid who was into goth. (obviously completely off) Every Friday night he would come down totally decked out like goth ( all ready for the clubs). Peircings with tons of jewelry, white face paint, leather everything, red lips.... and as he would pass the dining room his mother would come and say really sincerely and nicely we would love if you would join us. (there was always a place set for him). Well now this boy is in the mir in Israel and when asked how he came back he would tell this story and end it with " how much of that (his mother) can you take! Very Happy

I am not saying that it is always the right thing to keep the child at home. Obviouly you need to ask a rav. I just thought that it is an inspiring story.

Heth

Sun, Jan 22 2006, 4:13 pm

Hi IM new here.
I have 3 kids.
5 years ago we had a serious family crises, my husband was very sick. BAruch Hashem he recovered, but it was a severe trauma.
Our eldest son - who is now 20- was the worst affected. He quit yeshiva, stayed at home, and had a serious conflict with hashem.
He stopped laying teffilin and wearing tzizis, stopped praying altogether. Changed his clothes etc etc.
I was told by people to throw him out of the house- gently advised to send him away- because of the effect he could have on the other 2 children., and the mebarrasment to the community.
I was abhorred by those suggestions. he is our child, the last thing he needed was to be rejected and sent away. I kept him at home, and at all times kept the channels of communication open with him.
During the past 5 years he has drifted in and out of religion. Will wear a kippa sometimes, sometimes not. Shaves sometimes, sometimes let his beard grow. HE left Yeshiva, went on to do a full bagrut, did sherut leumi - one year as a helper to a boy with downs syndrome- one year in a school for autistic kids. he wants to be a social worker.
he has had girlfriends.
HE is VERY respectful of what goes on in our house- wont do anything that offends anyone.
I get people coming up to me all the time with that sorry look on their face asking about him. It makes me want to vomit.
I am very proud of him , I love him very much, he is a survivor, Im not interested in what he wears on his head- im interested in whats in his soul- and that looks good to me.
I dread to think what could have happened if I would have succumbed to pressure and thrown him out- heavens forbid.
Heth

eaglewings

Thu, Jan 26 2006, 5:05 pm

First, I must comment that "hitting " can cause kids to go off the derech--- but so can a lot of other things. I have had a few "wishey washey" kids-- not taking off the kippah, but yes with girl/boy friends, no davening...and I think that the most important thing is to let them know that you love them, much more than you want to not be embarressed. Many kids in the teen years are lazy--- want to have fun--- but deep down have a basic emmuna. If you can not fight, and keep the connection open, there is a very big chance that they will shape up as they get older and maturer.