I want to keep hosting for simchas, but…

↑ Bnei Berak 10

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 4:12 pm

Chayalle wrote:

OP I think you have done wonderful Hachnasas Orchim.
I myself have found it intense to host families with children on long summer Shabbosim. I remember a couple of incidents, including:

*family with 5 children showing up as DH was making Kiddush (we make early Shabbos). The kids were running thru our house screaming as the parents settled themselves. We could barely hear DH.

*family hanging out at our house all afternoon, and even bringing additional cousins along to play in our playroom, emptying our entire game closet and making (and leaving) a wreck.

*family that showed up expecting babysitting all Shabbos, till past midnight and all afternoon. Baby was NOT sleeping. I was exhausted.

It's perfectly OK to put your family first, especially on Shabbos when family time is so important. Sometimes you need to set boundaries, maybe temporarily. This might include not hosting children (I generally host couples, maybe with a young child or two - I stopped hosting so many at a time - or families with older kids past the playroom stage, or Bubby and Zaidy....), specifying what accommodations will and will NOT be available (I specify that I don't do babysitting). There's nothing wrong or rude with this.

When you set boundaries and the mitzvah becomes enjoyable for you and your family (with no resentment), it enables you to do the mitzvah MORE - not less (this is what our Rav told us).

speechless

↑ Sesame

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 4:36 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

I made Shabbos sheva brochos besides everyone bringing there kids would be to costly it would also have been a circus. If you can’t leave your kids for a Shabbos which usually is dividing them once in 6 months or only for the meals then I think it’s an issue

Why is it an issue? I wouldn’t leave my kids for Shabbos (I’m not talking teens or adults). That’s a parenting choice that makes sense. If ppl invite adults only for Shabbos, they have to be prepared for some to decline the invitation. I fail to see the issue. If it’s so important that they be there otherwise “it is an issue”, invite the kids too.

amother

↑ Beige

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 4:48 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

What about people living outside NY/NJ? Or outside the US? Making a Simcha and expecting everyone to just fly in for the day can often exclude a chi no of people.

People can come for as long as they want. Smile

But the option to just come for a day exists. If you make a shabbos afternoon simcha that is very much more complicated.

imorethanamother ↓

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 5:03 pm

keym wrote:

It's entirely community dependent.
I was raised in a large OOT community.

When my sister got married, the hall was only available on a Thursday night. Practically that means the chassan, his younger siblings, married siblings and their children, and the kalla's married siblings and their children came for the shabbos Sheva Brachos.
You can't tell people not to bring their kids to the Sheva Brachos. They're in a different city, they don't know people.
I guess you can tell them not to bring their children to the Chasuna at all, but that tends to not be acceptable.

In the large OOT communities that I'm familiar with, it's considered standard that children come for Sheva Brachos because they have nowhere else to go.

In Lakewood, I see different attitudes. Especially depending on where the chassan and kalla are from and where the children are from and is it possible to no invite some or all.

I hear the dilemma but is it fair to expect a ton of stranger families to take care of all these people for you all shabbos long?

For my own siblings I only went to the wedding and missed the rest. Sheva brachos is not a requirement.

↑ keym

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 5:13 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

Look. Like I said, I was raised in an OOT community. The culture in that community is that everyone pitches in and helps take care of each other because next week the shoe will be on the other foot.

I'm not responding about the OP.
I'm specifically responding to a poster who said that children shouldn't come to Shabbos Sheva Brachos.

But here's the scenario. Chasuna Thursday night. It's self understood to everyone in the community that either children come to the shabbos Sheva Brachos or don't come to the Chasuna, and possibly their parents don't come either

amother

↑ Green ↓

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 5:23 pm

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

People can come for as long as they want. Smile

But the option to just come for a day exists. If you make a shabbos afternoon simcha that is very much more complicated.

But if someone comes in from out of town for a weekday Simcha that you are making, who is responsible to find them accommodations? Honestly, if I had to go out of town for a Simcha AND find my own accommodations there, unless it was a place where I knew someone I was comfortable asking if they can host me, I would skip it. I guess that would be the choice the Baal Simcha makes in that case.

amother

↑ Green

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 5:24 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

If the wedding is Thursday night and you live an airplane ride away, you might not be able to get home in time for shabbos.

amother

↑ OP

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 5:45 pm

If someone is coming from out of town and we are asked in advance we would totally have them for all day Friday too and even to sleep over motzai shabbos. We’ve done that a number of times with pleasure when it could work.
The issue is that because bH our community has a Simcha almost every week, what are the expectations. Most ppl are coming from within the same town or driving from 1 to several hours to get here.
As far as not inviting kids when you’re the Baal Simcha, I’ve never done that. My family probably wouldn’t come. But I know a lot of ppl do do that and it’s very accepted in some large families.

amother

↑ Hunter ↓

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 5:55 pm

A sibling in law of mine lives about 2 hrs away in a small OOT community. Most people traveling between 2-3 hrs drive to get there. Last summer, she made a bar mitzvah shabbos but told the family she found us homes only for Fri night and we'd have to go home Motz shabbos. The Bar Mitzvah party was Sunday night, let me tell you we were all very ticked off to have to travel back home late Motz shabbos only to drive back the next day for the bar mitzvah. This was her way of not overburdening the hosts but boy did she burden the rest of us.

↑ imorethanamother

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 6:38 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

If the wedding is Thursday night and you live an airplane ride away, you might not be able to get home in time for shabbos.

Yeah, well, I had an awful time at a host one shabbos. It wasn’t her fault and it wasn’t mine, it’s just the nature of having guests. Things break. (I host all the time, it is what it is).

After that I realized that it’s just not worth it. If we go to the simcha at all, we stay by either parents or we don’t bring the kids. If parents don’t take this into consideration then it’s their problem to create the solution. I come when shabbos sheva brachos is at a hotel, for example.

And I’m sure there are other dates, that Thursday is usually just the earliest date. And that should be considered as to how people are going to be able to deal with shabbos.

amother

↑ Salmon ↓

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 6:41 pm

amother [ Hunter ] wrote:

Was there no Homewood suites or motel 6 to stay in?
Yes, it is far to travel but hosts host for Shabbos so that you can walk, not to give you a free vacation. If Motzi Shabbos is not an imposition on them, it is nice to let you stay because the beds are already dirty….. but if they displaced their kids, or you wake them in the morning, it is an imposition and not a fair ask.

amother

↑ Salmon

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 6:45 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

What does it mean to have them all day Friday?
I have definitely had people come on a Thursday night or stay Motzi Shabbos for a party Sunday evening, but entertaining them on Friday is not the innkeepers job. They should be going to the mall, a museum, for pizza… and coming back 2 hours before Shabbos to shower, not there all day expecting to be waited on. Do hosts not work?

amother

↑ Cinnamon

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 6:45 pm

amother [ Hunter ] wrote:

Whether to host motzai shobbos would go by community norm. I guess in her community they don't. In the midwest town I grew up in, of course you do bc how is someone going home motzai shobbos.

You do have the option of staying motzai shobbos in a hotel. I realize that's $$. However in a small city you should be able to find something cheap.

amother

↑ Orange

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 6:51 pm

Sesame wrote:

Yes and this is why I wasn’t at my SIL’s shabbos aheva brachos. People can invite whoever they want but if you’re asking me to come without my kids then you need to be ok with me not coming.

amother

↑ Hunter

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 7:07 pm

amother [ Cinnamon ] wrote:

It's actually a pretty seedy neighborhood outside of the frum community so we'd have to drive 40 min to get to a normal hotel. And it's money. And it was a summer bar mitzvah, late Motz shabbos, pack up all the kids to drive to a hotel check in settle everyone..... You get the picture. I really think it was insensitive of my SIL and stupid. By the time Sunday night rolled around everyone was tired, traveled out, ticked off .......If you invite a family to come, if it's important to you that family (and their kids) come to your simcha than you make the arrangements reasonable. I think a summer shabbos it is reasonable to ask if people can sleep over Motz shabbos. If this was a do over I don't think I would go for shabbos and neither would most of my siblings in law.

↑ essie14

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 11:24 pm

amother [ Antiquewhite ] wrote:

I don't think it's nice to invite ppl without their kids. I'm in my upper 40's and I still remember my parents going out for the shabbos seuda ans we were not invited. It was not a good feeling.
If you can't have kids,don't invite !

Your parents chose to go. DH and I get invited to shabbat events without our children. We don't attend.

↑ imaima

Wed, Jun 08 2022, 12:53 am

First of all, if OP hosts people without kids, them it doesn’t mean kids are not s part of the simcha. Maybe there sre other more flexible hosts who can have someone with kids.

OTOH people travel with just some of kids, or none at all, pretty often for a simcha.

↑ WhatFor

Wed, Jun 08 2022, 1:35 am

amother [ Hunter ] wrote:

Huh? A 40 minute drive is easier than 2 hours each way if it was important to you. How was your sil stupid and insensitive for not having accommodations for you? She can't force her neighbors to keep you an extra night if they don't want to.

And absolutely, if it's too much to drive each way for both Shabbat and Sunday and you don't want to pay for a hotel, then tell your sil you can only make one or the other. That doesn't make her stupid or insensitive for not having the space where to put you motzei Shabbat.

Shmoozinator

Sun, Jun 26 2022, 3:30 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

No it’s not a lock you’d break. More like a child lock that’s very obviously locked when the other closets aren’t. We’ve even tried hanging sweet signs up on the closet doors…please use this one, etc.

The playroom doesn’t have a lock. It’s one big open room that they must walk through to get to their rooms.

And sometimes people hang out for many hours, from when they’re up in the morning until the seudah, and after the seudah for many hours…

Honestly, for some people, this doesn't sound firm enough. I would put a proper lock on it, and/or a sign that says something like "this closet is off limits. Thank you"
As someone who's been a guest many times, I do prefer when hosts are specific. If you don't want me going somewhere, tell me. If a place is at my disposal, tell me. Show me what is for me in the kitchen (water, snacks, coffee, etc) or not. Having boundaries is important for the respect and sanity of your family. It might feel uncomfortable to tell people things, and I understand you not wanting them to feel uncomfortable, but if you're nice and firm about it, or have a list with a little welcome package waiting for them, it can be really helpful for both sides involved.
Hatzlacha!