If you were the Teacher what would u do?

ora_43 ↓

Tue, Apr 15 2008, 10:53 pm

marina wrote:

That said, I am still not clear on why you think she is being abused. Because she touches herself excessively? Maybe she has a yeast infection and the parent doesn't know what to do about it.
I would talk to the child and ask her if anyone has ever poked her there or put anything in there. I would have the nurse look at her rash and ask her about it, if you have one on staff.

At this age asking directly is not a good idea. You have to be very careful questioning toddlers, otherwise you can accidentaly put words in their mouths, weird cult abuse claims have been started that way. Social services and the police have experts who specialize in talking to kids about these topics. If you want to know if a child is being hit or abused you should have a professional ask her about it, DO NOT ask directly "does so-and-so hit you," "did anyone touch you there," etc, you can make things much worse.

↑ ora_43 ↓

Tue, Apr 15 2008, 11:00 pm

amother wrote:

Degoldy if you were not 100% positive that the child was being abused and you knew that social services would inspect and suspect this persons who knows what else they would find to take this child away would you still feel u should call, yes I f after a period of time like a few months I would say that we see no improvement then I'd agree but why not give the family a fighting chance to get to the bottom of this espcially of they are innocent and it's just a disorder of some sort that the child has or is going through??????????????

So now we have to be 100% sure of abuse before saying anything shock

? Do you have any idea how many children would be left in abusive situations that way? Why are you so afraid that the parents might have to deal with a police investigation (annoying, embarrassing, but not the end of the world) and not afraid that the child might have to suffer abuse for months or even years until someone finally feels sure enough to speak out?

Reporting suspicions of abuse is not the same as reporting a crime, you aren't accusing the parents of anything, you're just asking someone to look into the situation, that's all. Yes there are some social services horror stories out there, but in general social services do whatever possible to keep families together. They do not take kids away the minute a file is opened, they only take kids away if there is something seriously wrong in the home.

↑ amother

Tue, Apr 15 2008, 11:11 pm

OP,

While I'm glad you felt comfortable addressing this issue with the parent, I do hope you will think about the following and do what you think is right.

I have to agree very strongly with the poster above me. I don't know who is hurting this child, if anyone at all, but that is because I haven't evaluated the child. You have, and were obviously upset enough to ask for advice here. In fact, you said that not only were you concerned, but 2 other teachers were too. So we are talking about 3 early education professionals in a licensed (according to you) facility, all sharing the same concerns about one student. Now, for a moment lets put aside the fact that you are required by law to report this, but honestly you don't think something is amiss here? I think you know something is wrong, but are afraid of causing more harm to this child (and maybe potentinally to yourself) by reporting this. I really want to encourage you to rethink this situation.

As posters above me said, the child will not be removed from the home and placed elsewhere on your word alone. She will speak to a child psychologist that specializes in abuse cases, be examined by a pediatrician that also specializes in abuse and her caretakers will be interviewed. As you see, there is a safety net of trained professionals who are qualified to make educated decisions based upon their combined findings.

Again, as someone else mentioned, if the mother isn't abusing her daughter and hasn't noticed the signs and symptoms you and your fellow coworkers have, then she IS being negligent. That goes for the father, and frankly any other adult in the situation.

I saw someone else wrote that they too were from a big well known family, and although no one suspected it, she too was abused. Well, guess what I'm from a big, well known, frum family also and trust me when I say that NO ONE would ever guess that I was abused as a child, but I was. I just finally told my DH after having bottled it up and denying it for years..

My goal is obviously not to pressure you into doing something you aren't comfortable with, but rather to give you the koyach to do what I think you know is the right thing. Although, if I was in your situation I would call CPS, if you aren't comfortable doing that, why not at least call Jewish Family and Child Services or another similar group to be sure that this little girl is ok. She is still young enough to work through what happened to her and IY"H have a normal happy life. Please don't make her live in an abusive situation until she is an adult. The would honestly be a shame as well as a crime.

I urge you to think about this child the next time you daven, and to ask Hashem what he'd like you to do. Sometimes children are given life by people who aren't meant to by parents, you can help do Hashems work (or a mitzvah, however you want to see it) by helping this child to find her "real" family, the one G-d intended her to be raised by. Hatzlacha, I know this takes a great deal of strength, but I think you will feel much better when you know you have helped this girl.

↑ ora_43

Tue, Apr 15 2008, 11:12 pm

ora_43 wrote:

They do not take kids away the minute a file is opened, they only take kids away if there is something seriously wrong in the home.

I should add "unless there is a concrete reason to suspect serious physical abuse," ie multiple unexplained fractures or burns or something similar, but since that's not the case here I can't imagine the child would be taken from her home unless an initial investigation showed there really was cause for concern.

OP--
IMO the best thing to do (yes, even now, after you've talked to the mother) is to ask a social worker you trust what social services would do if you reported a situation like this, and maybe talk to a Jewish group that handles abuse as well. If they say that the child will be taken from her home for weeks or months based only on suspicion, fine, don't report it just yet, but if they say (as I'm guessing they will) that social services will send a trained child psychologist to speak to the girl, that testing will be done, etc, but that she will not be taken from her parents unless something really is wrong, then you should report.

Don't think that telling the mother is enough, if she hasn't done anything for over 18 months who says she's going to start dealing with the problem now?

Imaonwheels

Sat, Apr 26 2008, 12:47 pm

I was a child welfare worker and I am now a teacher (though B"H no longer of small children.

1. Are not teachers mandated to report where you live? In most places they are.

2. Don't assume something like autism, leave that call for a professional.

3. When I worked for CWS I didn't hate Jews, neither did my coworkers openly. That said it is certainly better to involve a Jewish agency if there is one.

4. My first suggestion would be a home visit. These used to be routine in frum schools. Be sure to be very non threatening but keep your eyes and ears open and listen to what is not said as well. If you are lucky, the mother may confide in you and then you can refer her to the right address to get help.

5. If you have a school nurse/dr have them look at her as well.

A sore bottom and arriving not clean sounds like at least part of the problem is the environment. Are there other children from the family so you can compare records?