Why are there so many special needs kids?

Chana Miriam S ↓

Tue, Jan 11 2022, 4:08 pm

amother [ Sunflower ] wrote:

Intermarriage within tight circles also tends to circulate problematic genes more than the standard society.

Even not tight circles. Circles Period. Genetics. For the life of me I don’t understand why converts aren’t more valued in marriage in the frum world, first for joining us and second for widening the gene pool

For that matter, more ashkenazi Sephardic mixing would help genetically.

Last edited by Chana Miriam S on Tue, Jan 11 2022, 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ FranticFrummie

Tue, Jan 11 2022, 4:11 pm

amother [ NeonYellow ] wrote:

Well, vaccines definitely don’t cause special needs. That has absolutely been disproven by the medical community many many many times.

But let’s say it could. We know vaccines prevent things like measles, pertussis , rubella, polio.

So I’d take a kid with special needs over a dead kid any day.

YES!!!

And think about this. Being anti vax, organic, vegan, etc. is a really big thing these days. More and more people are going down this path...

And yet there are more special needs kids than ever.

Some forms of autism are definitely inherited. Some kids show clear signs of autism before they are old enough to be vaccinated.

Some autistic kids don't ever fit the "regression pattern", and just hit social milestones slower.

Another thing, is that now the tech industry is so big, more people on the spectrum are meeting and marrying other people on the spectrum, so the odds of their kids being on the spectrum are much higher. San Jose and Santa Clara in California have soaring rates of autism in kids, when the parents are employed in the tech industry. Palo Alto is coming in a very close third.

I'd be curious to know what the rates are in the tech industry in Israel, and cross that data with people who vaccinate or not. Add the data about whether the one or both parents are also on the spectrum, and see what the numbers are.

Of course, all of this is speculative. People who love statistics do this kind of thing for fun. The data doesn't change anything for a person with autism, or the parent of a child with autism.

amother

↑ Calendula ↓

Tue, Jan 11 2022, 4:13 pm

Chayalle wrote:

My mother A"H was pro spacing vaccinations. But she would get so upset when people said things like this.

My mother told us she felt something was "different" about my brother from day 1. She had him on R"H and a Rav from the community came to the hospital to blow shofar, and found her crying. He told her that on R"H special neshamos come down (he meant to comfort her), and my mother said she wanted a normal neshama, and yes, she feels she got a special one. She saw differences in his development right from the beginning, he showed signs way before he ever had a single vaccine.

Whatever. This stuff is so old hat. Everyone knows it's been disproven, there's no link between autism and vaccines. Sorry but anecdotal evidence doesn't cut it.

This is a bit pretentious of you to assume. And offensive to those who watched a child regress post vaccines. Maybe your mother happened to believe that and your brother happened to be special needs from birth. That certainly does not mean vaccines are not causative in some (or many!) cases of regressive autism. The cases of autism are 1/45 now. Autism is hoing up dramatically which means much of the spike is environmental. To say something so certainly is offensive to those who have a loved one with the condition who regressed. No one knows anything forsure.

amother

↑ Calendula ↓

Tue, Jan 11 2022, 4:18 pm

amother [ NeonYellow ] wrote:

Did you ever hear of a middle ground? As someone who spaces out vaccinations due to a family history bh none of my children are "dead." No reason baby needs 25 shots (many unneeded such as flu, rotavirus, Hep B among others) before their 2 year old birthday when the brains are rapidly developing.

↑ Chana Miriam S

Tue, Jan 11 2022, 4:22 pm

amother [ Dill ] wrote:

I think it's really important for parents to be educated about interacting with their babies from day one. From talking to them, playing with them, sensory stimulation, movement, and more. The first months and years are crucial and when a baby spends too much of that time sitting in a stroller, in a swing, or watching screens it's going to affect their development. Also if parents are aware of any delays they can intervene early which is also crucial.

While I don’t disagree that stroller parenting is not ideal, the refrigerator mother theory was disproven long ago.

Autism is not caused by indifferent parenting.

↑ LittleDucky ↓

Tue, Jan 11 2022, 5:39 pm

amother [ Calendula ] wrote:

The rate of autism, specifically, can be linked to changes in how it is diagnosed. In the DSM 5 they EXPANDED the definition. This means by definition MORE people will now qualify when before they would not meet the criteria. It is much much easier to get the diagnosis today than 10 years ago.
Read the DSM 5 and compare to the DSM IV-TR. If I say that now the category of dogs now must include any 4 legged animal - yeah there will be "more dogs" than previously counted.

Read my prior post on this thread. There are many many reasons for an uptick in diagnoses. Including definitions changing.

amother

DarkRed ↓

Tue, Jan 11 2022, 6:07 pm

amother [ Snow ] wrote:

I know a family with SEVERAL autistic members- in different branches of the family. It definitely runs in fsmikies, genetically

It may be anecdotal, but when I worked for years in public school, I had many students with autism, and for just about all of them, they had a parent or sibling with similar characteristics. Once, a student's grandfather came for Grandparents Day and it was uncanny how similar he was to my student who was HFA. So in my observations, there is a genetic component.
BTW I didn't see a difference in the percentage of diagnoses in my ps students vs frum kids in my community. It was pretty much the same.
Looking back, there definitely were girls in my class at school who would have been diagnosed with something if they were currently students today. Instead, they struggled in school and often fell through the cracks. There have been many strides in the field of special education since then. Which is a positive thing!

amother

↑ Calendula ↓

Tue, Jan 11 2022, 6:10 pm

LittleDucky wrote:

While expanding diagnostic criteria may account for some of the increase it certainly did not change the rate from 1/2000 when we were kids to 1/45 now. Seriously????? Do the math on that. You mean to tell me that parents 20 years ago would not know their kid was autistic? Kind of hard to miss, don't you think? Contrary to popular belief its not that easy to get a diagnosis. A child really needs to be autistic to get a diagnosis.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Tue, Jan 11 2022, 6:27 pm

amother [ Calendula ] wrote:

Except vaccines are literally linked to autism....look up hannah poling. Her family was paid for a settlement because her multiple vaccines caused her autism. As much as the cdc keeps spouting the same vaccines font cause autism, there are many more studies linking it that they dont talk about

Just because someone was paid a settlement does not mean that means vaccines caused her autism. It just means the company settled. It proves nothing. This is not a scientific study.

My sister told me that in medical school, she studied a case where a family sucessfully sued the makers of advil for her child's death. The child likely died from the underlying illness she was diagnosed with, but the family was able to sue nonetheless.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Tue, Jan 11 2022, 6:29 pm

amother [ Calendula ] wrote:

No less pretentious than your assumption that vaccines cause autism. But boy, do I find the bolded to be offensive to my mother's memory and knowledge of her son and how he presented. You certainly don't know any of this for sure.

amother

↑ DarkRed ↓

Tue, Jan 11 2022, 6:30 pm

amother [ Calendula ] wrote:

I was in school 25 years ago. There were plenty of girls who were just thought of as "quirky" who probably would get a diagnosis today. As a matter of fact, 1 of those girls told me a few years ago that her teen son was diagnosed with autism when he was around 10. Another friend, who has a husband with Aspergers has a daughter who was just recently diagnosed with autism. Because Aspergers isn't a diagnosis anymore.

amother

↑ Sunflower ↓

Tue, Jan 11 2022, 6:39 pm

andrea levy wrote:

I'm in total agreement with you. If we'd be much more understanding how genetics works, we would be chasing after marriages from different circles. We already have many circulating genetic issues in our population, more than the average, yet we continue to gloss over it like it doesn't matter. Dor Yeshorim can only do so much.

I think -or am hoping - that as we become more understanding of science or when genetics make significant advances, we'll gradually shift our mindset.

amother

↑ Calendula ↓

Tue, Jan 11 2022, 6:47 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Why would they pay millions of dollars if the family could not prove the regression was caused by the vaccines? Her father was a neurologist. You think big pharma wanted to connect that there was a link? They needed to bec there was irrefutable evidence in this case.

amother

↑ Clematis ↓

Tue, Jan 11 2022, 6:47 pm

amother [ Snow ] wrote:

I know a family with SEVERAL autistic members- in different branches of the family. It definitely runs in fsmikies, genetically

Just because something is hereditary doesn’t mean it genetic. Sure, there is probably a genetic vulnerability there, but there are many many environmental factors at play that are deciding if and how those genes should be expressed. For example, here is a scientific paper on how mold exposure and dysbiotic fungus and bacteria is passed on from mother to children, and how that connects to autism. https://www.nature.com/article.....lI0qg

Quote:

Thus, it can be suggested that autistic children may be born already colonized with fungi, while a “silent aspergillosis” could contribute or even be a leading cause for neurodevelopmental disorders in the early childhood

Aside from passing on pathogenic bacterial, fungal And viral loads, mothers also pass on toxic loads, heavy metals, lack of beneficial flora (can only pass on what you have), nutrient deficiencies, along with genetic vulnerabilities for methylation issues, autoimmunity, and so on. But genes are faaar from the only factor, despite it looking very hereditary.

amother

↑ Sunflower ↓

Tue, Jan 11 2022, 6:50 pm

amother [ Clematis ] wrote:

It may not be the only factor, but genetics have a large role.

↑ LittleDucky

Tue, Jan 11 2022, 6:50 pm

amother [ Calendula ] wrote:

So you think based off studies that were done that were falsified that it is vaccines that cause it. When I and other posters have given a number of reasons why more kids are diagnosed. Increased awareness, incentive to diagnose (to get services/ insurance requires it), societal changes, technology, diet...

And yes- the definition was expanded so immensely! Not only were the criteria requirements lowered, they also now include a whole bunch of other conditions in the "autism spectrum disorder" diagnosis. That is a fact. Vaccines are only speculation (and debunked speculation as well). But this is printed black and white fact.

amother

↑ Calendula ↓

Tue, Jan 11 2022, 6:52 pm

Chayalle wrote:

What is offensive by saying that? I am sorry- saying that obviously your mother believed there was a link and in your brothers case there was not, is offensive? Not sure why. Maybe you can explain. In any case, just because in your brother's individual case it was not connected certainly does not mean that you are correct in going around poo pooing people who do think their individual cases are in fact connected. Of course it may be a factor for other people who have regressive forms.

Perhaps your brothers case was genetic. Perhaps it was caused by another kind of environmental trigger such as a virus. But that does not mean for many others multiple vaccines are not the trigger for causing autism. Your experience in your own circumstance does not negate others real life experiences.

amother

Dodgerblue ↓

Tue, Jan 11 2022, 6:53 pm

amother [ Calendula ] wrote:

Many Lawsuits are settled because it is cheaper for the company. Instead of paying for attorneys etc to fight it, they do the math and hedge a bet to settle. If they lose the case it would cost them more than the settlement plus still have to pay attorney fees.

amother

↑ Clematis ↓

Tue, Jan 11 2022, 6:54 pm

amother [ Sunflower ] wrote:

It may not be the only factor, but genetics have a large role.

We don’t know that yet about autism and neurodevelopmental disorders. While there are a large amount of genetic syndromes that come along with an autistic presentation, most autistic children who are worked up genetically are NOT positive for any of those genes. There are many polymorphisms being studied in autism, but those are not monogenic disease genes, they are genes that control things like methylation, cellular detoxification, immune function. Which can all be manipulated by environment. So I don’t think we can say with certainty that genes play an outsized role here as opposed to environmental factors.