Bright students who call out ridiculously

imasinger

Wed, Dec 15 2021, 3:52 am

Waiting until you're called on is a skill. I disagree that people who are challenged with this are necessarily bored. They might be bored, but in general, I find they're excited to participate.

I treat it like any other skill, reminding a class frequently at the beginning of a time I'll be asking questions; saying to the first people I called on, "I love the way you raised your hand and waited, great job."

Depending on the situation, if a student is really having trouble with the skill, I might pull them aside and make sure they understand that calling out the answer means some classmates aren't getting a turn, and that isn't nice.

I'd also do my best to praise them every time they follow through -- "Rivky, I love the way you raised your hand, it's Chanie's turn now, but I'm happy you knew it, too.". Then, after the answer, I might sometimes ask, "who else was sitting quietly and knew it?"

It's useful to have class functioning goals, like waiting to be called on, or packing up. Break these skills down into their component pieces, just as you would any other material. For packing up, you can put the procedure on the board in steps, talk if through as a group, then, just before the time, say, "Remember all the steps! If everyone can follow them all in 4 minutes, we can get a pompom in our prize jar (or whatever incentive system you use)."

amother

↑ Vanilla ↓

Wed, Dec 15 2021, 3:53 am

mushkamothers wrote:

Sounds like executive functioning if it's the same kids. They don't need to be told "put on your coat" they need the sequence broken down of everything that entails leaving the room. Break down all the steps needed to leave the room. Packing folder, tucking chair in, putting on coat etc.
Even visually on their desks or telling them or announcing to the class.
BTW hyssop idea was horrible, don't do that.

Yup, that’s my son exactly. He needs to be told to wash when he’s in the shower. He needs so many things broken down for him. He needs the verbal reminders, not visual cues.

Hashem_Yaazor ↓

Wed, Dec 15 2021, 4:02 am

I'm definitely of the mindset that it's a packaged executive functioning deficiency. I have several bright kids, only one has had trouble calling out in class. And guess what? That's the only kid with problems like time management, etc. Suspected inattentive ADHD for that one.

Brilliant idea from one teacher to get the kid on the right path: for a few weeks, teacher gave this kid 4 quarters every morning privately. When calling out, teacher raised a finger and kid has to pay back a quarter. If any left at the end of the day, kid got to keep it. After a few weeks, kid was basically on par with rest of the class in terms of how often they call out vs raising hands...

amother

↑ Vanilla ↓

Wed, Dec 15 2021, 4:06 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

I wonder if that would work with my kid. He’s pulled out for enrichment for math and English, I think each for 30-40 minutes per day. I wonder if they would do something like that with him…..

amother

↑ Daffodil

Wed, Dec 15 2021, 4:36 am

amother [ Vanilla ] wrote:

I wonder if that would work with my kid. He’s pulled out for enrichment for math and English, I think each for 30-40 minutes per day. I wonder if they would do something like that with him…..

You could always give the quarters to the teacher ahead of time...

amother

Lavender

Wed, Dec 15 2021, 5:24 am

amother [ Celeste ] wrote:

I’m sure you are a caring proactive teacher;however, I want to point out gently to you that your posts and even your thread title "ridiculous" scream irritation and criticism of these kids. They are young kids! Personally were it me I would look within to find what is so triggering for me about these bright engaged kids and their behavior. That can only benefit you as well. When something is so emotionally charged it is usually a sign that something needs to be processed and resolved within. Can you find anything you do like about these kids? (signed) older and have seen maaaaany kids of all types in the schools
Hugs and hatzlocha

.

I don’t think the op came across as anything but a teacher who wants the best for her students.

↑ Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Dec 15 2021, 5:41 am

And to add for OP who has multiple students to work with, this might be better served as tickets to be cashed in or stickers if that speaks to your student body (but I don't think it's as effective as coins/prizes) since it's kind of hard to do privately with several students and the others will get immensely jealous... It might need to be on a class level. But I do think that the particular attention that my kid's teacher gave to show how important this was a skill to work on was part of the success.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 15 2021, 5:43 am

Thank you.

when I say "ridiculously" I mean that it's not like I'm asking 6 +8 and they're calling out 14. They are making comments from left-field, for what seems to be the fun of it. Ridiculous comments.

I am not angry at them. I am not even frustrated. (Ok, I am frustrated when they take extra time to leave, because I can't leave until they leave my class.)
I think they are adorable and witty and cute... And also distracting and disturbing.

These thoughts are coming up because it's report card and PTA season and I am thinking about each kid and realizing the pattern here.

I agree with poster (I think last on page 1) who said maybe I'm too loose and they are taking advantage of what they can get away with.

But it's so not style to be super strict.

(I'm not a first year teacher, BTW, I've been teaching 5-10 years.)

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 15 2021, 5:50 am

I think they they to call out most when waiting for other girls to answer. Or when we're reviewing work.
I think it's boring. They know the answer!!!
Going to try sudoku and logic puzzles and if they're involved in that, won't call in them during that review time...

But then other girls will want sudoku and DO NEED that review time... so not sure abt that.

So let's say we're reviewing a worksheet, and I cHi assume they for sure got 90% correct, based on their class participation and when I circle, spot-checking their answers.

they can take out their sudoku when they finish... And so can penina, Shifra, and zahava because they finished quickly too... But I esti, ruchi, and I forgot my other made up name LOL

can continue with sudoku when everyone else needs to be attentive again?

Fellow teachers, what DO you think?

Like when I have Girls read from classroom library, when finished their work, they have to close the book when it's review or frontal teaching or new subject

amother

Almond

Wed, Dec 15 2021, 6:09 am

I am that girl.
I am smart, creative, think outside the box, and have issues with executive function. These girls are not Alpha or the cool girls.
If you give then suduko, they will pay attention, UNTIL they get impatient, move to he suduko instead of calling out, but the you have lost them for the next 10-15 minutes.
While waiting for my tablet to sync or when my computer is going around and around thinking, I get bored and play on my phone, but then I get distracted. I was actually much better when we were on paper and things took longer but it was because I had to do it manually. The lack of down/waiting time was better for me.

In 4th grade, my teacher handled it really well.
She took me aside. She acknowledged that I am smart and have great ideas and would call on me for every question if she could, but that she needs to call on the others as well. She told me that she would call on me every 10th question or is nobody else was raising their hand. She also told me to write down my answers and ideas and I could show them to her. Chances are, the kid wants to share her reality great ideas (she thinks they are really great) and that she likes/respects you a lot and wants to make sure you think she is smart. (If there are multiples they each want to be though of as the smartest, and if Chani calls out then she is beating me with the number of answers and I will break the rules and call out too) regarding respect, it is not a lack of respect-it is seeking your acknowledgment of how smart they are because in their mind, smart car outweighs obedience. No malice is meant.

amother

DarkGreen

Wed, Dec 15 2021, 6:53 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thank you!!! Keep the ideas coming.

Another question.

These same students take FOREVER to leave school at the end of the day.
Like five minutes longer than everyone else.
It's not because they're schmoozing.

Somehow they still need to put on their costs and pour folders into backpacks, and I'm standing at the door, turning off the lights.

Any tips to get them to do things earlier?
I guess I can remind them, "esti/chana/ruchi please put on your coat," when everyone what is doing so.

It's interesting to me that it's the same firms whose brains are fired up with answers and funny comments are so sloooooowwww at packing up.

Is that what you mean by executive functioning?

5 extra minutes is not long at all. And if it were one student I may answer you differently, but seeing that is several girls... some kids don't think through which books they need because they really don't care much about reviewing or homework. Others think the week through carefully, OK tonight I have x and y homework and I want to start reviewing for my test next week in z. And Nechama asked to borrow my notes in q so I'll take them home for her too.
Please don't rush them. Especially since they are not shmoozing.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 15 2021, 6:58 am

amother [ DarkGreen ] wrote:

If they had from 3:45/ 3:50- 4 to packup, and it takes them until 4:03, then yes, that's long. Everyone else was ready by 3:55 at latest. It's not several girls. It's 3/20.

These are little kids. No notes, no studying for tests in advance...
All they need to do is put book back in their bin, HE folder in backpack, and coat and backpack on.

Just wondering, are you a teacher?

amother

↑ OP

Wed, Dec 15 2021, 6:59 am

amother [ Almond ] wrote:

I really like all these ideas. Thank you!!

amother

Bisque ↓

Wed, Dec 15 2021, 7:16 am

Veteran retired teacher here
These girls are definitely looking for attention
They are use to be being the brightest best Queen bees with all the praise in the world
This is why they lag behind hoping you’ll shmooze with them.
I agree with Positive re enforcement
Ignore the out burst and super praise the desired behavior
They will push back until they get it
Then they’ll behave for a while
All of a sudden they’ll take 3 steps back
That’s the critical time.
If you don’t react then the behavior will disappear
It might be helpful to give them brain teasers they can work on when they have extra time.

Also are there clear CLASSROOM RULES posted

amother

↑ Crimson

Wed, Dec 15 2021, 8:22 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Prepare the task on the topic of your worksheet, but a more advanced one. Give it to those who are done early. When it's time to review, everyone drops what they are doing and they review the worksheet together. If the advanced girls managed to finish their extta task by then, let them present the results.

If not, you can give this advanced task as a homework for everyone (and the advanced girls will be slightly ahead. NBG).

amother

Honeydew ↓

Wed, Dec 15 2021, 8:30 am

amother [ Bisque ] wrote:

my dd is very bright. she also has executive skill functioning causing her to have trouble getting her stuff together, remembering everything. she also really likes her teacher and likes to shmooze with her. The two don't contradict each other but ignoring my daughter's executive skill functioning issues isn't helpful.

amother

↑ Bisque

Wed, Dec 15 2021, 8:43 am

amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:

I didn’t say ignore

That’s why I asked if the rules are clearly posted
You can just point to the rule without giving eye contact
And then as soon as they do raise their hand call on them and mention how you liked the way they waited to be called on

chili-n-cholent

Wed, Dec 15 2021, 9:29 am

I've been that student, I was so bored in class. The pace was slow as anything and I just wanted to move along a bit. (and probably also a lack of self-confidence and wanting to show off what I knew)
Looking back I was probably super annoying to my teachers sometimes TMI

but this was a way of adding some excitement to my day.
Some teachers used to ignore my hand and others always acknowledged the interesting things I had to share.
I would have benefited from some private work on my own probably.
As a teacher try to acknowledge what they have to share, some students really need it for their self worth.