Doctor - I’m running out of compassion for the unvaccinated

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etky ↓

Sun, Aug 22 2021, 3:14 pm

my_sunshine wrote:

Look at what's going on now in Israel... it's really not as simple as they are making it seem.

Yes, look what is happening here.
More and more it's the unvaccinated who are the sickest patients in the Corona units, especially in younger age groups.
And doctors/medical personnel in Israel are publishing and posting the very same type of articles in the media and on social networks.

amother

↑ NeonGreen ↓

Sun, Aug 22 2021, 3:23 pm

etky wrote:

As of last week, 60% of hospitalized covid patients in Israel were fully vaccinated.

↑ etky ↓

Sun, Aug 22 2021, 3:24 pm

amother [ NeonGreen ] wrote:

As of last week, 60% of hospitalized covid patients in Israel were fully vaccinated.

Please educate yourself by reading other threads.
The figure you quoted means nothing.

amother

↑ NeonGreen ↓

Sun, Aug 22 2021, 3:44 pm

etky wrote:

Please educate yourself by reading other threads.
The figure you quoted means nothing.

That's kind of rude, no? I've read plenty, outside of imamother.

The figure certainly doesn't mean nothing.

I'll break it down: I'm assuming (but maybe I'm wrong; you could also just make your argument instead of hinting) that your logic is that since most people in Israel are vaccinated, if one compares the percentage of sick people who are vaccinated with the percentage sick people who are unvaccinated, there is a lower percentage of sick people who are vaccinated.

This reasoning has a few flaws:
For one, if someone is making a risk benefit analysis as to whether he should get the vaccine, reduced efficacy of the vaccine is highly relevant. The question I will want to answer is personal to me, not: Do the vaccines offer *any* benefit, but, Do they offer a benefit that's substantial enough for it to be worth it for me to get vaccinated? Clearly, the original claim of 95% effectiveness was a lie.

Second, who are these 10% of elderly adults in Israel who are not vaccinated? They are in frail health and afraid of the vaccine because of their frail health. In other words, they are also at the highest risk for becoming very sick from covid. We are not comparing people across age groups and health levels; you are comparing a self-selected group of people who chose not to get vaccinated due to poor health, and the majority of the population who is in better health, overall, who did get vaccinated. And yet, 60% of those overall healthy people, comprise the severely ill covid cases.

Finally, we are not looking at numbers that are static. First, the vaccine was 95% effective. Then whoa it dropped to 60%. Now it's at 40%. With sick cases multiplying exponentially, maybe next week it will drop to 20%, who knows?

And this is the real problem with the vaccines. Everyone is viewing them as though we understand how effective they are, when, how effective they are is something that is turning out to be quite fluid and changing by the day and week and across continents.

Sunny Days

Sun, Aug 22 2021, 4:09 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Maybe people don't trust our medical experts because everything is political. It was just last year that our current president and vice president were advising people not to trust an untested vaccine. The day after the election though, they said we should trust it. Hmmmm....

What's more, here's some guidance from the CDC's website with regard to how to prepare for the hurricane that is battering much of the east coast today:

Preparing for a Hurricane
Follow these important hurricane preparedness tips from CDC:

Prepare for a hurricane: Take basic steps now to ensure your safety should a storm hit.
Get a COVID-19 vaccine as soon as you can. COVID-19 vaccines help protect you from getting sick or severely ill with COVID-19 and may also help protect people around you.
Get emergency supplies: Stock your home and your car with supplies. Give yourself more time than usual to prepare your emergency food, water, and medicine supplies. Home delivery is the safest choice for buying disaster supplies; however, that may not be an option for everyone. If in-person shopping is your only choice, take steps to protect your and others’ health when running essential errands.
Make a plan: Create a family disaster plan.
Prepare to evacuate: Never ignore an evacuation order. Pay attention to local guidance about updated plans for evacuations and shelters, including shelters for your pets.
Protect older adults: Understand older adult health and medical concerns.
Protect your pets: Ensure your pet’s safety before, during, and after a hurricane.
When you check on neighbors and friends, be sure to follow social distancing recommendations (staying at least 6 feet from others) and other CDC recommendations to protect yourself and others.
CDC recommends that you print important documents (e.g., emergency phone numbers, insurance information) before a hurricane strikes. Power outages during and after a hurricane can prevent you from accessing information online when you most need it.

So as part of hurricane preparedness, the CDC recommends we get a covid vaccine. Do you see how some might lose a little trust in out supposed medical experts?

Here's a link for those interested.

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/featu......html

If you’re vaccinated you won’t get flooded or power outages... remember the chips conspiracy theory? They push hurricanes away from you, hence the urge everyone to vaccinate.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sun, Aug 22 2021, 4:11 pm

The vast majority of seriously ill COVID-19 patients at Petah Tikva’s Beilinson Medical Center are unvaccinated. For nurses Miri Shem-Ad and Maysoon Makladeh, it is painful to watch the often-avoidable tragedy as patients wilt under the virus.

The two nurses spoke to Channel 12 news in interviews broadcast Saturday, recounting the regrets of those who chose not to get vaccinated, and their own frustrations in dealing with a population that appears to refuse to take the ongoing pandemic seriously.

Read more from the link below.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/.....ents/

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sun, Aug 22 2021, 4:14 pm

Among older Israelis, serious COVID rate six times as high if unvaccinated

https://www.timesofisrael.com/.....ated/

Top expert optimistic as data shows cases in over-60s slowing after booster.

According to the Health Ministry, the rate of serious cases is far higher among unvaccinated Israelis over the age of 60, with 174 severe cases per 100,000. Among the fully vaccinated, the figure is 21.3 per 100,000, and among the partially vaccinated, 54 per 100,000.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/.....ster/

↑ octopus

Sun, Aug 22 2021, 4:15 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

These nurses sound deeply compassionate. Totally different tone in the article.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Sun, Aug 22 2021, 5:18 pm

Trump is now trying to get people to get the vaccine.

amother

↑ NeonGreen ↓

Sun, Aug 22 2021, 8:20 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Once again, this is ignoring the fact that the 10% of Israelis over 60 who are not vaccinated generally have other health concerns that make them hesitant to vaccinate.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Sun, Aug 22 2021, 8:49 pm

What about all the people who had heart attacks. stroke. myocarditis after vaccination?

They regret getting vaccinated.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Sun, Aug 22 2021, 8:55 pm

Fake News will never interview those who were injured or whose relatives died after vaccination.

so you only hear one side.

amother

Mint ↓

Sun, Aug 22 2021, 9:14 pm

BestBubby, you are so modest not putting your credentials after your name. Please remind us what your degree is in. Is it an MD, or PHD and is it in public health or infectious diseases?

amother

↑ Heather ↓

Sun, Aug 22 2021, 9:17 pm

Trump is now urging...wasn't he the one who instituted operation warp speed? time resources money and fast tracked the whole thing. Has been pushing it all along.

Many people are in favor of the vax for themselves and at the same time still want to leave it to personal choice between you and your doctor and no mandates.

↑ Mishmish ↓

Sun, Aug 22 2021, 9:21 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Fake News will never interview those who were injured or whose relatives died after vaccination.

so you only hear one side.

Classic and convenient, but totally unavailing, rhetorical device to say you cannot substantiate your claims because the truth is being suppressed.

If this was happening, it would the the story of the century. Every news outlet would be all over it. In fact, the news has reported on allergic reactions and rare side effects and continues to. But in the real (very low) numbers they are occurring, not the exaggerated proportions you keep promoting without citation.

It is amazing that you seem to think humanity is capable of a massive, worldwide conspiracy related to covid and vaccination when humans cannot even solve relatively small problems like traffic jams and providing clean water to people.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Sun, Aug 22 2021, 9:24 pm

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

BestBubby, you are so modest not putting your credentials after your name. Please remind us what your degree is in. Is it an MD, or PHD and is it in public health or infectious diseases?

Masters in Special Education.

And I am a history buff.

And just like today we are told to worship "Science" or "Medicine" in the
past people were told to believe whatever the priests said.

And no one could disagree because you don't have a "priest" degree.

BUT

There are PhD Scientists and M.D. Doctors who say the vaccine is very dangerous -
and they explain the science of HOW the vaccine causes damage.

And there are Good Treatments that cure Covid that the Government LIES about
and FORBIDS.

One has to be a Critical Thinker and not just trust Government which has a
5,000+ History of LYING to the people.

Best Bubby, MS-ED

Last edited by #BestBubby on Sun, Aug 22 2021, 9:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Sun, Aug 22 2021, 9:27 pm

Mishmish wrote:

Six Corporations own all the newspapers, TV, Radio, Movies in the country.

Pharmaceutical Industry is the world's biggest advertisor who pays for all the news media.

amother

Bisque

Sun, Aug 22 2021, 9:29 pm

amother [ NeonGreen ] wrote:

Nonsense. The doctors who treat early outpatient covid, feel that with early treatment, it never progresses to the point of requiring hospitalization.

What's shameful is the campaign to dissuade people from seeking early treatment and to dissuade doctors from treating.

What is early outpatient covid treatment?

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Sun, Aug 22 2021, 9:43 pm

amother [ Bisque ] wrote:

What is early outpatient covid treatment?

There are different protocols recommended by doctors.

Ivermectin seems the most recommended. HCQ (Hydroxycloroquine),

Zinc, Azythromicin (antibiotic), Vitamin D, Vitamin C, steroids,

Using a nebulizer, or inhaling steam from a pan of hot water.

Gargling with anti-septic mouthwash.

Monoclonal antibiodies.

These treatments have a very high cure rate if you start them as soon as you suspect
you have Covid. Once a person is very sick, these treatments usually don't work.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Sun, Aug 22 2021, 9:50 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

In Florida, monoclonal antibodies are probably the easiest to access.

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