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amother
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 Thu, Jun 17 2021, 11:01 am
| amother [ Phlox ] wrote: | This is sadly true for many "supporters" of abusers of all flavors.
And nearly all abusers have a "story" or a "justification", and true support for victims is in some way confrontational and demonstrative--whether it's in public or private, quiet or loud, etc. and it's too messy and uncomfortable for most people--somehow except for those people energized to do so for the abuser. It's too hard to use gevurah when we need to it seems---everyone wants to solve all the problems with chessed and being "nice" and "comfortable" and "polite"(to a fault). |
đź’Ż
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amother
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Thu, Jun 17 2021, 12:20 pm
| stblcsw wrote: | | Can somebody explain to me why everything that’s stated by Dalia is taken as fact and obviously in accordance with rabbinic guidance? She has done so much good for this cause and brought exposure to a huge issue in our community and we should all be thankful to her for that. However, when we get to a point of her making jokes (on a live that has been viewed tens of thousands of times) about alleged plastic surgery of people related to a get-refuser; it might be time to take a second and consult our own rabbis what we should believe and how far we are allowed to take this. To reiterate, it is indisputable, IMO, that dalia has done an immense amount of great work for this cause; but that does not mean for certain that every word stated by her about others is accurate. Show me a siruv from Bais din, that’s good enough for me. Tell me a woman spent thousands of dollars on a stolen credit card with no proof provided (as far as I’m aware), I don’t see how anybody could blindly accept that. |
And we know in the past we were told ppl were enablers and supporting the get refuser when they were following the advice of the rabbanim involved and asking for help to get the get.
After the rav published a letter that it was an issue d’araisa she stopped.
When false information is spread its dangerous bec it makes ppl more skeptical - like what else isn’t true.
But as others clarified:
when it comes to get refusers we believe everything discussed in social media about their extended families as fact.
When it comes to get refusers their blood relatives are always guilt and enabling no matter what.
If you question unverified stories on dmsocial media:
You are an enabler
A man (sometimes a specific man like Meir kin)
Don’t support agunas
Hold yourself Holier then others
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southernbubby
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Thu, Jun 17 2021, 12:39 pm
| amother [ Phlox ] wrote: | This is sadly true for many "supporters" of abusers of all flavors.
And nearly all abusers have a "story" or a "justification", and true support for victims is in some way confrontational and demonstrative--whether it's in public or private, quiet or loud, etc. and it's too messy and uncomfortable for most people--somehow except for those people energized to do so for the abuser. It's too hard to use gevurah when we need to it seems---everyone wants to solve all the problems with chessed and being "nice" and "comfortable" and "polite"(to a fault). |
Some rabbonim apparently are trying to dissect how a divorce becomes this contentious. Maybe there is a way to steer clear of divorce tactics that in essence, declare war. Obviously these cases have reached a point of extreme hostility and if protests work, than by all means do it but I wonder how often men see a bunch of protesters and give the get on the spot. Has strong-arming the guy's family caused them to disown him until he complies with the Beis din? How many people care more about other people than they care about a close relative? If it works, then by all means do it but the question is, does it work?
For certain, everything should be tried to free agunahs but the issues that lead to this need to be addressed. When women seek divorce, this scenario needs to be kept in mind in order to keep it as amicable as possible.
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amother
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Thu, Jun 17 2021, 12:51 pm
| southernbubby wrote: | Some rabbonim apparently are trying to dissect how a divorce becomes this contentious. Maybe there is a way to steer clear of divorce tactics that in essence, declare war. Obviously these cases have reached a point of extreme hostility and if protests work, than by all means do it but I wonder how often men see a bunch of protesters and give the get on the spot. Has strong-arming the guy's family caused them to disown him until he complies with the Beis din? How many people care more about other people than they care about a close relative? If it works, then by all means do it but the question is, does it work?
For certain, everything should be tried to free agunahs but the issues that lead to this need to be addressed. When women seek divorce, this scenario needs to be kept in mind in order to keep it as amicable as possible. |
Between 5-10 aganos have been freed since the start of this compaign, by men who were afraid they would be targeted next.
Some names you might recognize from Instagram-
Elizabeth, Michelle, Evet, Chana, Efrat, Marina, Miriam
Last edited by amother on Mon, Dec 20 2021, 11:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother
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Thu, Jun 17 2021, 1:11 pm
| southernbubby wrote: | Some rabbonim apparently are trying to dissect how a divorce becomes this contentious. Maybe there is a way to steer clear of divorce tactics that in essence, declare war. Obviously these cases have reached a point of extreme hostility and if protests work, than by all means do it but I wonder how often men see a bunch of protesters and give the get on the spot. Has strong-arming the guy's family caused them to disown him until he complies with the Beis din? How many people care more about other people than they care about a close relative? If it works, then by all means do it but the question is, does it work?
For certain, everything should be tried to free agunahs but the issues that lead to this need to be addressed. When women seek divorce, this scenario needs to be kept in mind in order to keep it as amicable as possible. |
Divorcing a narcissistic abuser is never amicable for good reason. The way to rein it in is by not allowing stalling tactics or spending too much time in unreasonable or unproductive negotiations waiting for the abuser to be reasonable. As long as there are no real consequences, they won't comply with anything--and even then they will avoid doing so.
Now in civil courts, there are consequences to not participating or not following orders from the courts and civil authorities. With BDs, the consequences have to come from the community--a BD can issue a psak din and/or a seiruv, but there are no designated other shotrim. We are the shotrim.
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Crookshanks
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Thu, Jun 17 2021, 1:17 pm
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Is it possible to hold off getting a civil divorce until the guy gives a get? Is this something that is possible?
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southernbubby
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Thu, Jun 17 2021, 1:23 pm
| SafeAtLast wrote: | Between 5-10 aganos have been freed since the start of this compaign, by men who were afraid they would be targeted next.
Some names you might recognize from Instagram-
Elizabeth, Michelle, Evet, Chana, Efrat, Marina, Miriam |
I am not on Instagram but if it works, then I am all for it. I am not worried about collateral damage to innocent relatives because more than likely, the get refuser has already damaged the reputation of the family and sometimes unfairly targeted relatives will apply pressure on the get refuser.
OTOH, if someone is targeted that has a legal claim of damages, expect lawsuits.
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southernbubby
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Thu, Jun 17 2021, 1:26 pm
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I would also ask if the protests alone accomplished the giving of the get or were there other negotiations and concessions? Did the man simply comply or did he ask for something in return?
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amother
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Thu, Jun 17 2021, 1:28 pm
| southernbubby wrote: | | I would also ask if the protests alone accomplished the giving of the get or were there other negotiations and concessions? Did the man simply comply or did he ask for something in return? |
In a few of those cases in the Persian community an individual gave a lot of money.
It is possible the negative focus brought him forward to do it.
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amother
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Thu, Jun 17 2021, 4:09 pm
For all my protesting….
The fact the mother liked a post by Meir kin attacking dalia doesn’t look very good
(Thank you to the poster below for clarifying who it actually was and was not)
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amother
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Thu, Jun 17 2021, 8:02 pm
| amother [ DarkViolet ] wrote: | For all my protesting….
The fact one of the sisters liked a post by Meir kin attacking dalia doesn’t look very good |
I believe Shuli is the mother
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amother
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Thu, Jun 17 2021, 8:08 pm
| Crookshanks wrote: | | Is it possible to hold off getting a civil divorce until the guy gives a get? Is this something that is possible? |
I’m doing that over here and it’s still taking years... there is no fighting about money or kids either. Just his side making issues about anything they can think of... and then having to work it out etc etc
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amother
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Thu, Jun 17 2021, 9:17 pm
| amother [ Alyssum ] wrote: | | I believe Shuli is the mother |
Thank you for clarifying
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amother
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Thu, Jun 17 2021, 9:58 pm
| SafeAtLast wrote: | | Watch the video for the answers to most of your questions. |
What's the link?
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amother
Carnation
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Thu, Jun 17 2021, 11:24 pm
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I just read the whole asheschayil account and whew! I feel like I need a dip in a mikva to get rid of all that tumah.
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saltandvinegar
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Fri, Jun 18 2021, 5:39 pm
| SafeAtLast wrote: | For those wondering if this compaign is working.
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wasserman said the same and never went.
btw, does anyone have any updates?
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amother
Yellow
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Fri, Jun 18 2021, 5:49 pm
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I’m with another chambray. She just said it better than I could have said it so I won’t repeat it all just to say that OP’d meanness is horrific and out of place. This does not in any way reduce my support to the aguna (or any other Aguna for that matter)
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Crookshanks
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Fri, Jun 18 2021, 7:05 pm
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Thanks for the good news! May all agunos be freed soon! đź’—đź’—đź’— Have a good Shabbos all
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