I found it rather unrealistic that the Rov tells Chanina he's enough of a ben Torah to figure things out - both WRT to the surrogacy and now with keeping the dangerous pregnancy.
Also it seems they previously had to abort because she had this hypertension? Does that mean she's necessarily going to have it again? It's not like that with regular eclampsia or toxemia.
But I don't think it makes sense that the Chevra Kadisha allows parents to go for burial of a nefel - I'm pretty sure they don't in the US and I know EY they are much more strict. I don't think they even tell the parents where the burial is.
I found it totally realistic. First of all, Chanina is an excellent excellent Talmud Chacham. But also because Chanina wasn't coming to the Rashiva (lol) to ask him whether they should continue the pregnancy or not, he was asking who he should go to in order to convince Ruchami to abort the baby. The halacha was already decided, he was looking for guidance. The Rav said he'll figure it out by learning. One hour wasn't going to kill anyone, literally.
In the end, Chanina went his own path. He read that Gemara that made him think of the 1/1000 quote the Professor told him, and he saw Ruchami's counterpart in male form - the Rabbi Zimmerman who couldn't learn again, and how that broke him. That finally spoke to him in a way Ruchami's desire to have a baby couldn't. (Even though I'm sure he wants a baby, Chanina said he feels fulfilled by learning Torah and creating chiddushim).
Last edited by imorethanamother on Mon, Feb 01 2021, 5:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
Yes, good point about the Rov who lost his learning.
But I think somehow Chanina needs to convince Ruchami that it's okay to do the surrogacy and that by risking her life she's possibly leaving him alone.
The question is if they can save her life if the hypertension returns, and then maybe there's the 1 in a thousand that both she and the baby will survive.
I was just looking at various clips of interviews & I see Kiva skating with Libi. Pretty sure I never saw that. Anyone know which episode it was? Also her saying Libi Shtisel-Shtisel. Maybe I just don't remember.
I was just looking at various clips of interviews & I see Kiva skating with Libi. Pretty sure I never saw that. Anyone know which episode it was? Also her saying Libi Shtisel-Shtisel. Maybe I just don't remember.
Maybe it is yet to come in the next two episodes of season 3. Kiva has lots of flashbacks of Libi.
Where did you find those clips? I would love to see them.
Only season 1 and 2 are available in Netflix at this point. Season 1 and 2 came out a few years ago. It aired on Netflix and became extremely popular for viewers out of Eretz Yisroel. 5 years later they came out with season 3, and in fact it hasn't finished airing yet. It will probably come out on Netflix in a few months or sometime next year.
Maybe it is yet to come in the next two episodes of season 3. Kiva has lots of flashbacks of Libi.
Where did you find those clips? I would love to see them.
One in a thousand - I think we say it in Yom Kippur davening, that a person can get a positive judgement
This is from Yerushalmi Kiddushin, I did not find it in Bavli, so Chaninah must be a very serious talmid chochom (it's not so common to learn Yerushalmi). It quotes two pesukim in Iyov:
אפי' תשע מאות ותשעים ותשעה מלאכים מלמדין עליו חובה ומלאך אחד מלמד עליו זכות הקב"ה מכריעו לכף זכות ומה טעם (איוב ל״ג:כ״ג-כ״ד) אם יש עליו מלאך מליץ אחד מני אלף להגיד לאדם ישרו ויחוננו ויאמר פדעהו מרדת שחת מצאתי כופר
Basically says if 999 malachim are saying bad and only one says good, Hashem will redeem you. This means from aveiros but Chaninah took it to mean that a one in a thousand chance is worth trying for.
Wow! Thank you for this!! Its amazing that you know this gemara!
Anyone else think that the sole purpose of the ice skating scene was to show that Akiva and Libi are shomer negiah?
I was imagining a non-frum person watching and thinking, just hold his hand already!
I found this on page 12 of this thread. So obviously it is in one of the episodes...
Maybe it is yet to come in the next two episodes of season 3. Kiva has lots of flashbacks of Libi.
Where did you find those clips? I would love to see them.
Has he had other than the first episode?
I also right away realized that there's no way in Yerushalayim of all places that the parents are going to the kevura of their stillborn child. I forgot to post about it.
It was definitely a flashback and not an imagining. That's where they met Professor Mishnayot and he says it was 4 years ago when he speaks to Chanina. At least one couple got pregnant right away!
I was afraid when she told Shulem she wasn't feeling well that she was dangerously sick from the pregnancy. I was so nervous that Chanina was spending time trying to talk to her parents, etc and then he'd end up finding her at home in a really bad situation. I'm glad that didn't happen!
Why is Devorah'le's room set up in Racheli's master bedroom? I'm sure there must be more space and she's 1 already plus it's for appearances only, so why didn't they set up a "nursery"?
I was just looking at various clips of interviews & I see Kiva skating with Libi. Pretty sure I never saw that. Anyone know which episode it was? Also her saying Libi Shtisel-Shtisel. Maybe I just don't remember.
One in a thousand - I think we say it in Yom Kippur davening, that a person can get a positive judgement
This is from Yerushalmi Kiddushin, I did not find it in Bavli, so Chaninah must be a very serious talmid chochom (it's not so common to learn Yerushalmi). It quotes two pesukim in Iyov:
אפי' תשע מאות ותשעים ותשעה מלאכים מלמדין עליו חובה ומלאך אחד מלמד עליו זכות הקב"ה מכריעו לכף זכות ומה טעם (איוב ל״ג:כ״ג-כ״ד) אם יש עליו מלאך מליץ אחד מני אלף להגיד לאדם ישרו ויחוננו ויאמר פדעהו מרדת שחת מצאתי כופר
Basically says if 999 malachim are saying bad and only one says good, Hashem will redeem you. This means from aveiros but Chaninah took it to mean that a one in a thousand chance is worth trying for.
We say it as a prelude to kapparot before candle lighting on erev yom kippur.
Why is Devorah'le's room set up in Racheli's master bedroom? I'm sure there must be more space and she's 1 already plus it's for appearances only, so why didn't they set up a "nursery"?
Actually, although he's putting the crib together in Racheli's bedroom, when the social worker is there you see the crib in the living room.
I've read that many times scenes are shot on different days with different people and there's someone assigned to make sure e/t is consistent e.g. hair style, placement of furniture and props, etc but I guess sometimes that person can make a mistake.
Why is Devorah'le's room set up in Racheli's master bedroom? I'm sure there must be more space and she's 1 already plus it's for appearances only, so why didn't they set up a "nursery"?
Actually, although he's putting the crib together in Racheli's bedroom, when the social worker is there you see the crib in the living room.
I've read that many times scenes are shot on different days with different people and there's someone assigned to make sure e/t is consistent e.g. hair style, placement of furniture and props, etc but I guess sometimes that person can make a mistake.
It looks like one of those plastic cribs on wheels that people move around their house - bedroom for sleeping, living room for playing, etc. Makes sense that it would be moved around actually.
Why are they ignoring the elephant in the room? What happened to Yossele?
A couple of months or more already passed since the last time we saw him mysteriously letting the flies go. Are they going to start the next episode with him already married to one of the Shiras? Or will we find him still stuck trying to figure out which one to choose?
In Lipa and Giti's brief appearance when Chanine wanted to talk to them they looked pretty calm. Giti always has a strained sort of depressed look around the eyes, but for her that's normal. If all the tension with Yossele's shidduchim is over, which way did it go?
Also it seems they previously had to abort because she had this hypertension? Does that mean she's necessarily going to have it again? It's not like that with regular eclampsia or toxemia.
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It means that she ALWAYS has pulmonary hypertension, and the pregnancy exacerbates it. Dangerously so. They don't show her seeing doctors, which they should, to manage the condition. It can be managed with medication and monitoring.
Some people do - with proper medical care and monitoring of the condition and tweaking the medications - go on to have children, but it's something you need to manage with doctors. Not by yourself. And, of course, there's a big risk of maternal and/or fetal mortality.
It means that she ALWAYS has pulmonary hypertension, and the pregnancy exacerbates it. Dangerously so. They don't show her seeing doctors, which they should, to manage the condition. It can be managed with medication and monitoring.
Some people do - with proper medical care and monitoring of the condition and tweaking the medications - go on to have children, but it's something you need to manage with doctors. Not by yourself. And, of course, there's a big risk of maternal and/or fetal mortality.
Can you explain the medical condition for us laypeople? Is the danger to the mother only during birth or even during the pregnancy? How high is the mortality rate? Is it really 999 in 1000?
It means that she ALWAYS has pulmonary hypertension, and the pregnancy exacerbates it. Dangerously so. They don't show her seeing doctors, which they should, to manage the condition. It can be managed with medication and monitoring.
Some people do - with proper medical care and monitoring of the condition and tweaking the medications - go on to have children, but it's something you need to manage with doctors. Not by yourself. And, of course, there's a big risk of maternal and/or fetal mortality.
And I'm just wondering...those who said earlier that Proffessor Mishnayot was wrong for contacting Chanina, do you still feel that way??
I was impressed that when Chanina went to see the Dr and the Dr yelled at him for letting it happen, he didn't defend himself by saying that she did it behind his back. He stuck to the point and said, "she is already pregnant so what do we do now? "That was pretty big of him.
