I wonder how the bdieved piece will be translated/explained to the general public outside of Jewish Israel
Good question. But if you think about it, the series is replete with frum ideological concepts and frumspeak. The producers weren't covering anything up
I wonder how the bdieved piece will be translated/explained to the general public outside of Jewish Israel
This is on of the reasons why I love this show. Even though it now has an international following, they still are keeping the show close to home for frum jews and israel. Its great.
I was/am almost afraid the tone would change for this season since they know they have a global audience. Still holding my breath.
I think the opposite has happened. There is so much frumkeit and jewishness, even more than other seasons yet.
I mean, that bit in the rav's office with hanina. Not even every frum person will get it all.
I think the opposite has happened. There is so much frumkeit and jewishness, even more than other seasons yet.
I mean, that bit in the rav's office with hanina. Not even every frum person will get it all.
but is doesn‘t happen like this in real life is it? when somebody who learns in a kolel goes to a rav for an advise, how often the response would be you know the halacha so you can decide on your own?
you know the halacha so you can decide on your own?
I don't think that's what the Rov is saying. I think he's saying, only you can decide if your wife's desperation makes it necessary to follow the bedieved route. And, he tells him, since you are so steeped in Torah, what you decide is based on your Torahdig understanding and becomes the right thing to do.
you know the halacha so you can decide on your own?
I don't think that's what the Rov is saying. I think he's saying, only you can decide if your wife's desperation makes it necessary to follow the bedieved route. And, he tells him, since you are so steeped in Torah, what you decide is based on your Torahdig understanding and becomes the right thing to do.
I love Shtisel and think that they did a masterful job in portraying individuals in this community. So much of it seems authentic.
However, it bothers me a little that most of the main characters are shown to be somewhat hypocritical in their jewishness, or acting in ways that seem very out of character for a frum Jew in that community. Yes, I know it's just a show, and meant for entertainment purposes. But these things make it less authentic for me. .
Shulem appears as a G-d fearing Jew (he goes ballistic when Akiva paints his mother with a drop of her hair showing) but is actually a compulsive liar, who has no qualms about hitting up on women. It is not acceptable in that community for a man to be eating dinner with a woman without intent of marrying her. He also manages to embarrass himself when he is caught listening to those comedy tapes.
Gitty seems very authentic, which is why it is so shocking when she seeks to have an abortion.
Lipa- well, we know how he had his fling in season one. Other than that, he seems to be just a regular guy with faults, but not hypocritical.
Ruchami- how weird that she writes secret letters to a random boy she spies on. Weird that she then goes and marries him without ever telling her parents. In season 3, she lies to the professor when asking him to remove the IUD. She makes it sound like it was a joint decision between herself and her husband when in fact she was going behind his back. There is also a scene in season one where she puts a cigarette in her mouth (in the library). Oh and she reads forbidden books (But that is not so untypical).
Akiva is totally not typical. He has no problem chasing after Elisheva and then Libby. These things are not considered ok in this type of community. Getting engaged just so he could spend time with Elisheva...He also sleeps until 12.
Elisheva exposes her hair to Akiva and also tries to sneak in a kiss in a moment of passion. She also listens to music on shabbos.
The famous painter (I forget his name) is a regular crook...pretends to paint when in fact none of the works are his own. He also bullies and exploits Akiva.
The grandmother and Rebbetzin Erblich watch TV shamelessly.
Chanina seems very sincere, but it's weird that when we first meet him he is learning by himself in an empty shul. Which bachur learns all alone without a rebbe or chavrusa? In season three we do see him learning in a yeshiva and asking daas Torah for help.
And another thing that I feel is inauthentic is how all the men and women address each other by their first names, instead of Mrs or rabbi..
The one person who I feel is really authentic and means it for real is Tzvi Aryeh. He is humble, honest, a real talmid chacham, was able to walk away from stardom when he saw it would be bad for his neshama and Shalom bayis. Yes, he deceived his wife in the episode with the mouse, but he meant well. He is such a loyal son. I loved how he assured his father that he is the best mechanech and only wants his kids in his yeshiva. Then he goes and plays along with his father's scheme to get the kids to sign up to his yeshiva, embarrassing himself for his father's sake. And yet, his father treats him pretty badly, hanging up the phone on him and in general, takes advantage of him. All in all, I feel Tzvi Aryeh is the one authentic, relatable character in the cast.
I love Shtisel and think that they did a masterful job in portraying individuals in this community. So much of it seems authentic.
However, it bothers me a little that most of the main characters are shown to be somewhat hypocritical in their jewishness, or acting in ways that seem very out of character for a frum Jew in that community. Yes, I know it's just a show, and meant for entertainment purposes. But these things make it less authentic for me. .
Shulem appears as a G-d fearing Jew (he goes ballistic when Akiva paints his mother with a drop of her hair showing) but is actually a compulsive liar, who has no qualms about hitting up on women. It is not acceptable in that community for a man to be eating dinner with a woman without intent of marrying her. He also manages to embarrass himself when he is caught listening to those comedy tapes.
Gitty seems very authentic, which is why it is so shocking when she seeks to have an abortion.
Lipa- well, we know how he had his fling in season one. Other than that, he seems to be just a regular guy with faults, but not hypocritical.
Ruchami- how weird that she writes secret letters to a random boy she spies on. Weird that she then goes and marries him without ever telling her parents. In season 3, she lies to the professor when asking him to remove the IUD. She makes it sound like it was a joint decision between herself and her husband when in fact she was going behind his back. There is also a scene in season one where she puts a cigarette in her mouth (in the library). Oh and she reads forbidden books (But that is not so untypical).
Akiva is totally not typical. He has no problem chasing after Elisheva and then Libby. These things are not considered ok in this type of community. Getting engaged just so he could spend time with Elisheva...He also sleeps until 12.
Elisheva exposes her hair to Akiva and also tries to sneak in a kiss in a moment of passion. She also listens to music on shabbos.
The famous painter (I forget his name) is a regular crook...pretends to paint when in fact none of the works are his own. He also bullies and exploits Akiva.
The grandmother and Rebbetzin Erblich watch TV shamelessly.
Chanina seems very sincere, but it's weird that when we first meet him he is learning by himself in an empty shul. Which bachur learns all alone without a rebbe or chavrusa? In season three we do see him learning in a yeshiva and asking daas Torah for help.
And another thing that I feel is inauthentic is how all the men and women address each other by their first names, instead of Mrs or rabbi..
The one person who I feel is really authentic and means it for real is Tzvi Aryeh. He is humble, honest, a real talmid chacham, was able to walk away from stardom when he saw it would be bad for his neshama and Shalom bayis. Yes, he deceived his wife in the episode with the mouse, but he meant well. He is such a loyal son. I loved how he assured his father that he is the best mechanech and only wants his kids in his yeshiva. Then he goes and plays along with his father's scheme to get the kids to sign up to his yeshiva, embarrassing himself for his father's sake. And yet, his father treats him pretty badly, hanging up the phone on him and in general, takes advantage of him. All in all, I feel Tzvi Aryeh is the one authentic, relatable character in the cast.
.
Love your analysis! I guess if they were playing people they wouldn't make interesting characters. That's why tzvi aryeh is a minor character
Also goes to show you that people may look typical but you never know what's going on behind closed doors
but is doesn‘t happen like this in real life is it? when somebody who learns in a kolel goes to a rav for an advise, how often the response would be you know the halacha so you can decide on your own?
This bothered me too and struck as something that might not really be reflective of reality.
Not sure if this kind of personal 'empowerment' in matters of halacha is encouraged, especially regarding such fateful issues that also have ramifications for the unborn child and for society as a whole.
This bothered me too and struck as something that might not really be reflective of reality.
Not sure if this kind of personal 'empowerment' in matters of halacha is encouraged, especially regarding such fateful issues that also have ramifications for the unborn child and for society as a whole.
I agree this would never ever happen on an issue so controversial in halacha as surrogacy. If they got a heter, it would certainly come with details and caviats and a lot of discussion. Not "you decide if you qualify."
However, in my experience, the bigger the rav, the more they encourage use of your own daas when deciding big life matters. They will help you be informed of the halacha considerations and tell you "here's option x in cases of situation y." This does seem real to me, and it makes sense that they wouldn't want to break it down further (Jewish woman, vs non jew, married vs not, is the baby Jewish from birth, etc) for TV.
This bothered me too and struck as something that might not really be reflective of reality.
Not sure if this kind of personal 'empowerment' in matters of halacha is encouraged, especially regarding such fateful issues that also have ramifications for the unborn child and for society as a whole.
I agree this would never ever happen on an issue so controversial in halacha as surrogacy. If they got a heter, it would certainly come with details and caviats and a lot of discussion. Not "you decide if you qualify."
However, in my experience, the bigger the rav, the more they encourage use of your own daas when deciding big life matters. They will help you be informed of the halacha considerations and tell you "here's option x in cases of situation y." This does seem real to me, and it makes sense that they wouldn't want to break it down further (Jewish woman, vs non jew, married vs not, is the baby Jewish from birth, etc) for TV.
He said that surrogacy is not allowed Lechatchila. Meaning, in normal circumstances, it's not allowed. (I actually don't understand why not, halachically. Isn't a man allowed to have more than one wife?)
From what I understand, the concept is acceptable in halacha, but the practical application is challenging. Who would the surrogate be? A single woman? Does her status change? Does the father now have some kind of obligation toward her? A married woman - an eishes ish? Is that adultery? A married woman has to be certain there's zero possibility to conceive from her own husband during this time - kind of a strange state. So then perhaps a non jew, to avoid those issues. But is the baby Jewish? Who does the baby halachically belong to? There's also a need for a shomer, to ensure the right genetic material ends up in the right place.
Basically, it's a complex sugiya with many many details.
I still wish there was more information about why a pregnancy would be so incredibly dangerous for a young healthy woman. How did she get the iud? Against her will? If she wants it out against medical advice, that's her right, isn't it? It's not really a decision the doctor can make for her.
could anyone post a link with the song that Yossele sings? couldn‘t find it
that‘s the song from the dinner if somebody‘s interested
https://youtu.be/wqsIp_nZ1Po
