Do your kids go to school on Sunday?

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Feb 14 2008, 8:20 am

I agree. If peoples' kids are bored, either they don't have enough interesting things to play with or read, or they aren't getting out to do enough stimulating things. Parents can think of all sorts of things to make time interesting and fun, and kids need to be able to do that for themselves. Did you ever read "The Phantom Tollbooth"? It's a wonderful book where a bored boy finds out how much fun ordinary, "boring" days can be. School is not there to be my kids' full-time babysitter.

Last week, my husband took one of our sons to the opera. Another week it might be a museum. This Sunday we're going to bake muffins together, several different kinds. When we're not doing things together, they can read, relax, do art, play games that can't be played on Shabbos.

I, too, am getting a little tired of everyone using the line about anything with which they disagree being a "non-Jewish" notion.

↑ Mimisinger ↓

Thu, Feb 14 2008, 8:21 am

Oh and also, there's a difference between Israel and Chutz. In Israel, we went to learn on Sunday, and when we went away it was this whole balagan. If we wanted to go away for shabbos and couldn't get back in time, I had to take off of school and dh had to tell his chavrusa, which of course, he felt bad about and we didn't do very often.

But, as I said, in chutz it's different! We have off on Sunday as a family day. And sadly, our kids may still have to go to school.

↑ shalhevet ↓

Thu, Feb 14 2008, 8:33 am

Mimisinger wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

I also live in Israel, and I think Sunday as a regular day is great. Growing up in England we often just wasted Sundays, or were bored. Why shouldn't our children learn on a Sunday? Yes, of course it's a non-Jewish idea to have a day to 'waste'.

There are holidays during the year for family days out, and that's enough. And, except for the older boys, the children all have time most afternoons for free play, reading etc. (The older girls sometimes have exams or lots of homework, but that is only temporary).

I just LOVE how if someone doesn't agree with you or doesn't understand something, it becomes a "non-Jewish idea" Rolling Eyes

. And, just because you think it's enough to have a half-day for family time, doesn't mean everyone does!

I thought you were interested in other people's opinions. And that's all I was writing; I certainly wasn't attacking you. Just remind me next time not to post what I think on your threads, if that's the response I am entitled to.

It is a non-Jewish idea to waste time. A Jew always has something worthwhile to do with his time and should be making the most of it (relaxing is also sometimes the best use of someone's time). If a child can learn another 20% Torah in their lifetime, isn't that something worth considering?

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Feb 14 2008, 8:41 am

shalhevet wrote:

It is a non-Jewish idea to waste time.

Huh? A non-Jewish idea? Since we're so source-happy here, what is your source for this? Or have you taken an informal poll of non-Jews? You say that sometimes relaxing is the best use of time. For these non-Jewish time-wasters that you know, how do you know relaxing isn't the best use of their time?

I love the authoritative tones people use around here. We should all do that.

Actually, time-wasting as a notion was begun in the middle ages, encouraged by Pope Pious IV. He actually persuaded Roman law to codify it, making it law for the next four hundred years. After that it was abandoned as a legality, but has been quietly encouraged in non-Jewish communities ever since. Read the booklet entitled Wasting Time, Thou Shalt Do It, distributed in the 18th Century, and still taught in Protestant parochial schools today. My non jewish neighbors actually went away for a weekend religious retreat which was completely focused on frittering, dawdling, ruminating and napping.

Wow, being authoritative is fun!

tovasmom ↓

Thu, Feb 14 2008, 8:53 am

Anyone want to get back to the poll? In NY, I believe all non-MO boys yeshivas have a half day of school in Yeshiva Ketana and believe me, I thought I would feel bad for my boys, but they really need the structure for part of the day. I see that from the summer when day camp does not run on Sunday. When ds asks me why he has to go to school when his sisters have off he seems satisfied with the "it is such a big mitzva for you to learn Torah that we don't want to miss a day" answer for now. My girls have off and I know Machon Baid Yaakov in BP was off the list of considered HS for dd because it has school on Sunday.

tzatza ↓

Thu, Feb 14 2008, 8:56 am

I think I posted on similar topic before...Anyhow, DS (6 y.o) in Brooklyn leaves home 8 AM (bus) and comes back 4:45 (school is over at 4:30). Fridays are till 12:15-12:30 and Sundays - 9-1. Plus, school is usually off two days before each YT, etc, the whole shpil Twisted Evil

It is a nightmare for working parents! And in all honesty, I do believe it is too much load for a 6 year old during the week as it is. He comes home exhausted, and usually already in lal-la zone by 7:30-8. Fridays are crazy with all preps, so Sunday comes out to be the ONLY (non-Shabbos) day for family things, and, ouch, we don't have it Sad

My wonderful in-laws who he adores live 1.5 h drive from us. THey are observant and work on Fridays, so they cannot come in to stay for Shabbos. We used to visit them regularly, and it was such a bracha for them and for our kids, but alas, this had to stop. Yes, writing letters and making phone calls is great, but nothing replaces the precious interaction between grandparents and granchildren. So, here is my vent....We don't have many options available as far as schools go and, overall, we like our school, but the adult-like work week is just ridiculous and it DOES affect kids.

↑ Mimisinger ↓

Thu, Feb 14 2008, 9:02 am

shalhevet wrote:

Mimisinger wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

I just LOVE how if someone doesn't agree with you or doesn't understand something, it becomes a "non-Jewish idea" Rolling Eyes

. And, just because you think it's enough to have a half-day for family time, doesn't mean everyone does!

I feel that when you post that "it is a non-Jewish idea to waste time," it's as though you are quoting from a source, a gemara, a Rav, when in fact as you said it's your "opinion." Usually, when people write their opinions, they say, "I think" or "My opinion is..." it's not this closed, pseudo-factual statement. So, if you're writing your opinion, please say that. If you're stating a halachic ideal, please use a source as you have no problem doing on other threads.

greenfire ↓

Thu, Feb 14 2008, 9:04 am

you forgot an option to the poll
~ I wish there was NO school on sundays

I've had kids in a variety of schools ... some sunday others not ... however on the whole I feel it pushes the kids - why can't kids have one day to wake up late in pj's and just chill with the family - we lose that with mandatory sundays ... also considering shabbos is NOT that being as a holy day we go to shul and are busy with same ...

you know what disturbs me on top of that - when girls have off school and the boys have to go in ... it moots the point of the girls having off ...

↑ JewishMother18

Thu, Feb 14 2008, 9:29 am

You are extremely aggressive Mimisinger.

This is an open forum and just like you have your opinions so do others. I have noticed that so many of your posts on this forum are extremely critical and intolerant.

Maybe you should have entitled your topic "For those living outside of E"Y - Do your kids go to school on Sunday".

For those of us who live in E"Y and have lived here for many years it seems a little absurd to be aghast at the idea of their being school on Sunday.

And for your information I don't think that my children have lacked in an education or quality time outside of formal education. We have visited almost every museum in Israel, done plenty of arts and crafts, toured around our wonderful country and spent ample quality time together despite the fact that I and my DH both work more than full-time and our children are in school six days a week. Having school and work on Sunday has certainly never stopped us going away for Shabbat either.

↑ Mimisinger

Thu, Feb 14 2008, 9:40 am

I'm sorry that you find me aggressive. I'd like if you could find other examples and PM me regarding them, as I don't want to seem aggressive or intolerant. At the same time, there is this camp on this site that, if you're more modern than them, or have any ideas that aren't aligned with theirs, you're seem as either a) not frum b) anti-halacha or the favorite, c)having non-Jewish ideals. I don't think that's fair.

Dh and I are both frum. We are tznius, keep all the halachot (obviously as best as we can), I cover my hair, we don't have a tv and dh learns daily, has a chavrusa several times/week, teaches daf yomi and goes to minyan 3x/day. And yet, if we want time on Sundays with our future children, we are seen as having non-Jewish ideals. I don't understand this.

Also, living in Israel is very different than living in chutz. It's also different if you have 1 children or 10. We don't get off for yom tov easily, we have to fight for it.

I also think it's not fair to call me out in the forum as being intolerant, aggressive and critical. But whatever.

↑ greenfire ↓

Thu, Feb 14 2008, 9:44 am

Mimisinger wrote:

I have to agree with you mimi - we live in a world where somehow it has become unimportant to have family time other than at a shabbos meal ... I find this horrific - if we valued the family as much as the torah - we might spend more time creating happy children ...

↑ shalhevet

Thu, Feb 14 2008, 10:36 am

Mimisinger, you originally asked:

Quote:

The reason is, we're finding all of the schools that we're looking at (for the future) in terms of where to live, all have school on Sunday. We're of the camp that kids should have a day off to relax. But, haskafically, all the schools that are good for us, have half day school on Sunday.

What do you think and what have you experienced?

Sorry, but to me that sounds like you are interested in people's opinions, whether they think having Sunday off is good or not. I posted what I thought, since it seemed that's what you wanted.

But you obviously only wanted to hear what you had already decided. First you attacked me for my views. Then you wrote:

Quote:

At the same time, there is this camp on this site that, if you're more modern than them, or have any ideas that aren't aligned with theirs, you're seem as either a) not frum b) anti-halacha or the favorite, c)having non-Jewish ideals. I don't think that's fair.

If you ask a question, what did you expect? That everyone would just agree with you? It is YOU who don't want to hear anything else, and yes, you were extremely aggressive and hurtful.

I can't post sources for not wasting time. Because it is not something that I can just whip out a gemarra. For any male over bar mitzva there is a constant mitzva of learning Torah, so any time wasting would be being mevatel that mitzva asei 'vehagita bo yomam valaiala'. For women it is a deeper concept that Hashem gave us our neshoma and life for a purpose, and not to waste. Again, that does not mean relaxing etc is forbidden, when it is needed, but not as a way of life to fill up our time with meaningless 'entertainment' etc. We also need to teach our children this, on a gradual scale.

Since Jews in Israel manage just fine studying 6 days a week, and have time to recharge their batteries during holidays/ bein hazmanim, that would seem to indicate to me that children do not need a whole day to waste, and not learn Torah, on a weekly basis.[/quote]

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Feb 14 2008, 10:45 am

I used to hate Sunday school when we first started it in first grade. I felt just like you. But I have come to change my mind. It gets Sunday started earlier. Instead of sleeping in, somebody has got to get out of bed and carpool. The day starts ealier is a good thing, you can get a few things done in the morning, have lunch and then the family is all together again to go out in the afternoon.

↑ tovasmom ↓

Thu, Feb 14 2008, 11:01 am

amother wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I used to hate Sunday school when we first started it in first grade. I felt just like you. But I have come to change my mind. It gets Sunday started earlier. Instead of sleeping in, somebody has got to get out of bed and carpool. The day starts ealier is a good thing, you can get a few things done in the morning, have lunch and then the family is all together again to go out in the afternoon.

... I completely agree. As I work full time Sunday is the only day I have to get those things done. And dh is up for minyan anyway so it helps us all get going.

↑ tovasmom ↓

Thu, Feb 14 2008, 11:31 am

With all due respect, getting into the habit of learning every day in order to be ready to properly perform the mitzva of limud torah does not happen overnight. The fact that they do learn in a structured setting six days a week goes far to develop the maturity to be able to do that. And aside from homework and review on shabbat and their motzai shabbat program where they learn with dh I am not pushing them into the structured learning at home. Sure we make brachot and daven, but at home they can chill and play with Legos or their Gameboy if they want -- they are still little. Their school is trying to work on midot and Hatmada at the same time with prizes and contests, but it takes the prizes to get the younger ones (under bar mitzva) motivated.

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Feb 14 2008, 12:55 pm

Jewish Mother wrote:

First of all, yours is the only aggressive post I've seen in this thread.

Second of all, with all of the critical and intolerant people on Imamother, you decide to accuse Mimisinger of being one? I can't imagine where that would come from, she is neither critical nor intolerant, and there are some women here who would fit that description to a T.