Teaching kids to be chutzpakik

amother ↓

Thu, Jan 10 2008, 5:16 pm

Today my 6 yr old son came home from school saying that his Rebbi told him he had to go to the end of the line. So I said, Why? what did you do?
He said, "Rebbi told us that when we go down the stairs we should not make a stampede. "
This was said with a laguhing clowing silly face.
So my son says, and then I said "But I want to stampede!" and he burst out laughing.
So then he says my Rebbi told me to go to the back of the line.

Now I properly scolded him, after trying to get him out of that clownly silly mood and thought to myself,"If his teacher had said, Kids please walk nicely down the stairs. Would my son have talked back?"

I think this teacher is unwhittingly teaching these children how to be chutzpadik to their teachers.
That entire day he acted up in school and I had a hard time settling him down at home. Normally he has beautiful behavior.

How can I teach my son it is not allowed to be chutzpadik when his teacher is encouraging him to talk back by setting them up for trouble?
Example, If I see my daughter jumping on the couch, I say, The couch is for sitting on. If you need to jump go to the floor.
but if I had said, no jumping on the couch, I am sure she would yell back something at me.
There are ways to speak so the child will not be given an opportunity to talk back.

Now this is one tiny portion of the day. You can only imagine how much of the day is spent "teaching kids to be chutzpadik"
How do I combat that daily? How do I educate my childrne NOT to be chutzpadik when every day I will be fighting the teachers who without realizing it are teaching this to the kids?
Is it any wonder that by 8th grade these kids are out of control?

I am posting as amother to protect the school. But if you don't thisk that I need to, I'll come out of hiding!

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Jan 10 2008, 7:22 pm

Perhaps becasue I deal with this teacher everyday, and know more about him I feel differently. A few weeks ago the teacher took the kids on a trip, and asked each child to bring in $$ to pay for it. For various unexcusing but valid reasons I kept forgetting to send in the $$.
My sons comes home and tells me, Rebbi says to tell you that you MUST send in the money and that nothing in life is free, so why do you expect it is?
And he procedded to lecture me and ask me to tell him why I am the only parent who forgot!
I couldn't even tell him that he is not allowed to talk like that to me becasue his teacher TOLD him to say that!

This teacher instructed my son to be chutzpadik to me and when I conforted the teacher he says, Yes I did say that.
How do you fight a battle like that?

mimivan

Thu, Jan 10 2008, 8:30 pm

while I think the example OP cited was very mild and I would have no problem with it, I DO think many teachers have to watch their sarcasm or they will get it right back at them..

taught for a year at a frum high school, and I recall many teachers would complain about chutzpah, but I heard the way they spoke to their students...a mirror-like reflection!

↑ amother

Thu, Jan 10 2008, 10:32 pm

[quote="mimivan"]while I think the example OP cited was very mild and I would have no problem with it, I DO think many teachers have to watch their sarcasm or they will get it right back at them..

taught for a year at a frum high school, and I recall many teachers would complain about chutzpah, but I heard the way they spoke to their students...a mirror-like reflection![/quote]

I recognize that teacher's can be inappropriate.Yes, that's why I'm not teaching now... at least until I get my own middot in order. embarrassed

I wish there was a quick, and lasting solution. I got the teacher's version of "How to talk so your children will listen; and how to listen so your children will talk." The premise of the book is good, but it lacked in depth guidance. Our school brought in the creators of the "Love and Logic" progam. Some us, however, need one-on-one mentoring.

I think the OP's example can be seen as humerous hyperbole not chutzpah. I think what happens is that children get great fun out of re-enacting a silly event that they experienced. Out of context the silliness gets amplified. I suppose for some, this leads to frivolity and latzanut which chazal warns us against. I (and many others on this site) have a BIG taiva for this. Maybe this calls for its own thread?

Abigail

Fri, Jan 11 2008, 3:54 am

I don’t really think the teacher is TEACHING them to be chutzpadik per say-as has been said, I do feel that this teacher has had obviously no training in teaching, as a teacher, one of the first things we are taught is to be positive in everything, being negative is a no-no.
I would suggest that you speak with the rebbe and see what he says. if this doesn’t change things I would suggest taking it further to the head of the school.

↑ imokay

Fri, Jan 11 2008, 5:07 am

im not sure why, but it makes me feel so bad for the teachers and the schools, if they have many parents like this to contend with. it isnt their jobs to instill the middos.
now I dont have school age chidlren yet, so I can't give a truly qualifying opinion, but I believe it will be my job to set the foundation, the schools's job to reinforce, my job to sift through it all and keep the bad out as much as possible.
I think teachers use sarcasm and humor to befriend the kids and build a mutually trusting relationship- and not be seen as strict disciplinaries who the students must be scared of. in today's society, with the relaxed attitudes, and the lure of the outside world, I think they hope to change the student-rebbe dymanics for the better.

as for the rebbi telling your son to say that to u, call me distrusting, but I cannot believe that a teacher would tell a child to repeat that, exactly as u told it. I believe there was some truth in it, but im sorry, I cant believe that thats the way it went down.