To all those that said it’s not true last week..

Mama Bear ↓

Fri, May 01 2020, 3:04 pm

I thought the doctors can't be sued?

amother

↑ Black

Fri, May 01 2020, 3:13 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

I thought the doctors can't be sued?

That’s right.

↑ Mommyg8 ↓

Fri, May 01 2020, 3:14 pm

4sure wrote:

I don’t understand what you’re trying to imply. That hospitals put people on trachs but don’t know how to care for them ? If she’s in the ICU she should have constant care.

Someone on a trach cannot do anything for themselves. It is pretty much implied that even in regular times, if someone is not watching over them, the care will not be optimum. I'm not saying this is the case always, or in all hospitals, but to say this is not something that happens sometimes is just naive.
Especially in times such as this when everyone is overworked.

↑ Mama Bear ↓

Fri, May 01 2020, 3:16 pm

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

If the patient or family of a deceased or disabled patient has knowledge or suspicion of abuse then there should be chart review.(Better?)

Cuomo absolved the medical workers from the obligation to keep charts. We will never know what really went on.

↑ Mommyg8 ↓

Fri, May 01 2020, 3:16 pm

ora_43 wrote:

You're mixing together a whole lot of different claims.

Nobody has said that patients get ideal treatment when family members aren't there. (It's extra absurd to be accused of saying this, given that I was told off by someone else in another thread for saying the exact opposite of that Can't Believe It

I'm not sure what this post is trying to say. I wasn't responding to you at all?

↑ Mommyg8 ↓

Fri, May 01 2020, 3:18 pm

gamzehyaavor wrote:

Icu’s (At least competent ones) are equipped and deal with trached patients all the time

(Ftr- it’s not a person on a trach as the trach is in the neck)

I had a close family member on a trache for a very long time. I'm sorry if I used the wrong terminology here and I'm not sure what I said wrong. This is a very painful topic for me.

amother

↑ Blonde ↓

Fri, May 01 2020, 3:31 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

I thought the doctors can't be sued?

I don't know any details, I don't know if anything will pan out. I hope they can somehow manage to at least get some acknowledgment from hospital admin that things weren't prepared for and run in the best possible way.

amother

↑ Pink ↓

Fri, May 01 2020, 4:26 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

Cuomo absolved the medical workers from the obligation to keep charts. We will never know what really went on.

Im a nurse. The above is false (more hearsay and repetition of half truths, though maybe not maliciously). Charting is always a must, however due to the situation, we were told we could do minimal charting and focus just on what was absolutely necessary. For example meds given must always be charted as well as focused assessments of the patients' ongoing problems. This was done so that nurses would be able to spend more time at the bedside caring for their many patients instead of at the computer writing long detailed care plans and notes. Please understand that there was no conspiracy to neglect patients and cover up provider inadequacy. The relaxation of regular charing standards was done so that patients could receive more and better care. Nurses are taught in school, " if it is not charted, then it is not done", so we truly want to document everything that we have done for the patient and the only way the oncoming nurse can be sure what was done is if it is in the chart so you can be sure that there will be a chart for every patient with notification of who took care of the patient and what they did

amother

↑ Burlywood ↓

Fri, May 01 2020, 4:46 pm

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

Perhaps you work at a different hospital, but a friend of mine who is a nurse said that they do NOT interact with COVID patients AT ALL. There is no "more time at the bedside caring for patients," more of that is done with non-corona patients.

amother

↑ Pink ↓

Fri, May 01 2020, 4:59 pm

amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:

I was there definitely trumps "a friend of mine who is a nurse"

Lets stick to facts. Repetition of hearsay and anonymous or 2nd and 3rd hand stories by my brother a hatzala member, my father in chevra kadisha, my neighbor a nurse etc are often skewed through the repeat and enjoyment of sensationalism and the victim of a game of broken telephone. It doesnt help those who suffered or died to try and place blame. The facts generally will out and perpetrators of abuse will be found but not if we weaken our claims by being the boy who cried wolf and issue a blanket blame on the many (most in my view) providers who did the best they could under an impossible situation.

↑ Mama Bear ↓

Fri, May 01 2020, 5:19 pm

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

Thanks so much for clarifying! I appreciate it.
I dont think there;s a conspiracy to mistreat patients. Whatever happened was unintentional neglect brought on the the staffing shortages and the fear of contracting the virus, combined with constant confusion on effective treatment.

amother

↑ Pink ↓

Fri, May 01 2020, 5:23 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

👌

amother

↑ Linen ↓

Fri, May 01 2020, 6:51 pm

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

Im believe amother pink is truly who she says she is. I generally believe people unless I have a reason to think they're lying or stretching things. Which is why I also believe the sister of the hatzlah guy and the wife of the chevra kadisha et al, especially when I heard a lot of these second handed reports from people who are known to me to not be drama driven drivels. The pain is real. The reports are serious. No amount of apologies nor money can ever compensate for the neglect. The medical personnel are imo not at fault, rather the higher ups they answer to. The fact that you'd believe one amother over another is telling. You believe what you want to believe. Nothing unheard of with that

amother

↑ Pink ↓

Fri, May 01 2020, 7:13 pm

amother [ Linen ] wrote:

I believe that people are reporting what they believe, but that is not necessarily the facts..it.is facts that they have created.in their mind due to pain and fear. Some terrible facts are irrefutable and the fault of the pandemic.... noone else.. I dont think upper management or administration or the mayor or governor or Trump or the WHO could have foreseen this and properly prepared for this unprecedented pandemic and the following almost breakdown of medical facilities.

Some facts that are undeniable and tragic yet happened way too often during the first weeks of the pandemic (though noones fault) are:
-Patients are alone with no visitors.
-Patients waiting very long for a kosher food tray.
-Patients waiting very long for a drink.
- IV bags running empty and not noticed for a while.
-Patients needing to be cleaned and waiting too long.
-Drs, Nurses and Aides being curt and quick and not showing compassion or even sounding non-caring
-Families not getting daily updates on the patient
And many more Im sure
A
As ive said before, all this was due to sudden massive influx of patients that causes a situation like a war zone or mass casualty disaster that lasted for weeks and was unbelievable and tragic and terrifying to those of us who saw it. Not enough staff, not enough or no supplies. Not enough knowledge - How can anyone imagine that optimal care can be given in such a situation. This was not willful abuse or neglect and most providers felt sick with the knowledge that due to the above, they could not give their patients what they love to give and what they have entered the medical field to do!

There are enough true stories that are so sad that there is no need to embellish or repeat something if someone was not there personally to see. Family and volunteers are often sad and scared and see and hear things that they perceive as wrong and will announce it as such as being wrong and abusive and neglectful however their perception is not always right . For example there was someone that complained that his mom was mistreated and her hands were restrained however I know of someone who extubated himself and went into cardiac arrest because his hands were not restrained. So medical situations where patients are very sick are scary and when family members see them they're not always aware of what they are seeing and what is necessary for patient care and will report it as a different than what it actually is.
I have been in the hospital and watched the care of a patient that I know and everything was done appropriately and then I heard from the family detailing everything from their point of view and how angry and upset they were and it was almost laughable how inaccurate it was. Saving a life and much hospital treatment is scary and unpleasant and may be painful especially during any urgent situation and compoinded by the state of the hospital during the first weeks of the pandemic and made infinitely mee negat8ve for the bystander to watch due to the dehumanizing PPE which the providers must wear which disguise a smile and compassionate eyes.
A child who is getting an injection, if he could verbalize it , what he would remember is not how his mom and the doctor explained that he would be giving a shot in his arm to keep him healthy and that he would get a lollipop afterwards, he only remembers that someone grabbed him held him tight maybe there's even a red mark on his arm and then jammed a sharp syringe in and maybe even drew blood so it's not that I don't believe people but often they perceive things as being bad when it is not so. Sometimes caring for a patient and saving their lives causes painful procedures to have to be done. The man who showed his bruised black-and-blue arm perhaps blood needed to be drawn often (he may have been on blood thinners too, or needed an IV) that doesn't mean that he was abused. Perhaps someone walked into a patient in middle of the night and the patiwnt was incontinent and the nurse clustered her care for his safety and hers to have to come in and do all tasks at 1 given time and had to check if he was wet and then his perception is that he was molested etc so take every story with a grain of salt and lets try to keep the negativity away because it does not help

↑ ora_43 ↓

Sat, May 02 2020, 2:34 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

I'm not sure what this post is trying to say. I wasn't responding to you at all?

Sorry, I misread.

What I meant about different claims is that a lot of different things are being claimed

- some people are saying patient care was less than optimal, but it isn't the fault of the staff

- some people are saying there is no PPE crisis, the hospitals are making it up to get money

- some people are saying staff at specific hospitals mistreat patients as a general rule, but staff at other hospitals are OK

- some people are saying that most covid patients who died, died of neglect not the virus

- the video that started this whole thing was claiming some of the above, plus, that there are experimental treatments that nurses should be using and aren't

- the video also said nurses should respond more aggressively when patients code

And maybe it's just me but it seems like 99% of the hostility on this thread (and the earlier locked thread) is coming from people assuming that if someone wholeheartedly believes one of these things, they believe all of them, and on the other side, if someone doubts one of them, they must doubt all of them.

The poster you were responding to was talking specifically about claims that patients were being starved to death by neglectful staff; she wasn't saying that people should be careful before saying patient care has been less than optimal. I don't want to speak for her, but I don't think that's something anyone denies. Hospital staff themselves have been open about saying that things are bad.

My apologies for my frustration earlier. It wasn't called for.

amother

Tangerine ↓

Sun, May 03 2020, 5:04 pm

An ICU doctor posts in response to the Facebook video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=.....tu.be

amother

↑ Pink ↓

Sun, May 03 2020, 5:22 pm

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

An ICU doctor posts in response to the Facebook video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=.....tu.be

And another that I think I posted previously

https://www.facebook.com/group.....6397/

Or this (same)

https://lm.facebook.com/l.php?.....TQdR4

amother

↑ Tangerine

Sun, May 03 2020, 5:27 pm

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

And another that I think I posted previously

https://www.facebook.com/group.....6397/

Or this (same)

https://lm.facebook.com/l.php?.....TQdR4

Thanks for adding that. I’m a NP, and I’m embarrassed to share a profession with ‘Sara NP’.

↑ chestnut ↓

Sun, May 03 2020, 5:29 pm

amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:

This doesn't make sense. She isn't working on a COVID floor?

amother

↑ Pink ↓

Sun, May 03 2020, 6:02 pm

chestnut wrote:

This doesn't make sense. She isn't working on a COVID floor?

Another case of , my friend, my cousin, a hatzala member, my brother etc.
I believe people mean well but there is alot of broken telephone going on.