what are non-Frum weddings like?

amother ↓

Thu, Dec 20 2007, 6:02 pm

We are all really happy that DH's sister got engaged. She is a really nice and wonderful person but she is not Frum. She has gone back and forth over the fence for a while now but she seems to be comfortably ensconced some where in the Conservative camp right now, her fiancee is probably somewhere between unaffiliated and reform. I want to have some idea of what kinds of shialos or uncomfortable situations might come up since I have no idea what non-frum weddings are like. The food will be kosher and I imagine that the chuppah won't be held in a non-orthodox shul since DH's family wouldn't go for it, but there will be mixed seating and dancing. Is there anything else I should think about in advance. I would hate to be in a position to tell her after she planned or made down payments that there was something that wasn't acceptable to us since we simply didn't know about it.

Also, does anyone ahve any sensitive ideas of how to bring up the topic of taharas ha mishpacha with her. SHe has learned about it inthe way those who are not doing it learn, but how do I start a conversation about it and if I am unsure if she will be m'kabel am I better off saying nothing?

Thanks

Clarissa ↓

Thu, Dec 20 2007, 6:15 pm

Having had a non-frum wedding and a frum wedding (and having been to many of each), I can't think of major differences, other possibly those you mentioned. Certainly at a frum wedding the guests also dress more modestly. If your SIL is from a frum family, she'll probably know what you might need to know before going.

As far as TH, I wouldn't push it, but if you want to, you can say, "I know you've learned about it, and I'm available to answer any questions you might have about it, if you're considering it."

Pickle Lady

Thu, Dec 20 2007, 6:22 pm

Female singers in the band. See if you can ask they she maybe only get a male person to be singing in the band. Both my conservative cousins has female singers in their band. one wedding was kosher but still had the femal singer in the band. The band played music most of the time and made it uncomfortable for our frum family.

One cousin of mine had a conservative rabbi do the ceremony and the wine wasn't kosher and the brachos said under the chuppah were pretty entertaining. When we asked the shailah we were told not to attend the chuppah because of this.

freidasima ↓

Fri, Dec 21 2007, 7:33 am

If you need separate seating I've found that many couples who aren't frum are willing to have a men's table behind a mechitz for a Rov and the few other guests at such a wedding, even close family.

greenfire

Fri, Dec 21 2007, 10:21 am

I also say go and not to worry about the details ... if you can eat fine - if you can't also fine ... that is NOT what defines the wedding ...

I would buy a book and take her out to lunch and talk about taharas hamishpacah at least from the wedding stance - for the wedding night - part of the wedding is "mikva" ... everybody is willing to do more for the wedding - then leave the rest for later ...

Ruchel ↓

Fri, Dec 21 2007, 11:31 am

If the wedding will be in a "kosher" shul by a "kosher" rav, I suppose she'll have gone to the mikve...
Yes, the music will be kol isha (band or cds) probably, you have to check the hechsher of the food caterer (and for wine too). Mixed dancing yes, mixed seating for sure. But most MO weddings I've been to were like this too (except kashrus problems).

catonmylap

Sat, Dec 22 2007, 11:19 am

You should also be ready to not be too surprised by the dress. Sleeveless dress is totally the norm in non-frum circles.

I agree that you should just try to get to go to mikvah before the wedding.

↑ freidasima

Sat, Dec 22 2007, 12:00 pm

Definitely try and get her to go to the mikva...I did this with a non frum girl marrying into the extended family...made a big thing out of it...took her to a spa first and then for cake and coffee and explained about prep and brushing teeth well, made it sound more like going for total physical and spiritual cleanliness and then took her to my mikva...I had explained to the mikva attendant what would be and they are used to non religious kallohs...and they were lovely to her and it worked out at least for the huppa for the best.

↑ amother ↓

Mon, Dec 24 2007, 2:50 am

Thanks for all the input. In general we will be going with the flow and enjoying but since DH's family is willing to push for some concessions I figure I can always ask them ad see what we get. Everything else we will ask a Rov.

For those of you who took non-frum kallahs to the mikva before the chassunah what about 7 nikiim? SHe is picking her date based on the date she wants and not her personal calendar. What happens if she really winds up with a chuppah niddah?

Raisin

Mon, Dec 24 2007, 5:55 am

I guess you should ask a rav about that. If a frum rav is doing the wedding, I think going to mikva is one of the requirements.

she may be on the pill anyway, in which case she can use it to push off her period.

supermommy ↓

Mon, Dec 24 2007, 8:10 pm

batya_d wrote:

Nobody mentioned that they might kiss under the chuppah after they break the glass.

that's right! I'll mention it now. A not frum cousin of mine had a kosher chuppah led by an orthodox rabbi and wore a shawl under the chuppah to be tzniua at least then but right after he broke the glass they kissed and I had to cover my children's eyes.

louche ↓

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 8:55 am

So they kissed? How shocking! You've just impressed upon your children that a man and woman who are married to each other bechuppah vekiddushin are doing something shameful or forbidden if they kiss. Well done! (insert sarcasm symbol)

↑ Clarissa ↓

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 9:40 am

I'm afraid I'm wondering the same thing. How exactly (and why) will you protect your children from ever seeing people kiss? I see people constantly kissing hello and goodbye when I'm out and about, and just expressing affection -- what's the great harm if they see a newly married couple kiss? I'm assuming they didn't start furiously making out and rolling around on the floor, of course.

↑ louche ↓

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 9:51 am

Clarissa, you know the joke: a newlywed couple is in the yichud room. The bride snuggles up to her husband of 5 minutes and offers her face for a kiss. The husband pushes her away, chiding his bride: None of that! You know what kissing leads to: Mixed dancing!

↑ amother ↓

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 10:05 am

My not frum brother-in-law is also engaged to a not frum but thankfully Jewish woman. They are not having an Orthodox ceremony. My husband thinks I should try to talk to her abt mikvah. (She is rather open minded). I think she would dunk but for a woman thats not enough. You need a hefsek and 7 nikiim with at least minimal bedikas.

For those of you who brought non frum women to the mikva how did you deal with all of that? Is it even possible.

We did give them Aryeh Kaplan's book Made in Heaven which touches on TH. I figured if she wanted to know more, she would ask me. Any advice?

↑ Clarissa ↓

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 10:11 am

amother wrote:

There are women who do mikvah but don't necessarily follow those particular rules to the letter. If she does mikvah at all, it's opening the door to TH. You can explain to her the rules or give her some literature, and see where it leads.

gryp ↓

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 10:12 am

I'm pointing this out here just to make people aware of what just happened in this thread. I don't want to cause hurt feelings.

I like your posts, louche, but this one is out of place. It is obviously important to supermommy that her children not see a bride and groom kiss under the chuppah. Why not post without the sarcasm directed at those who don't want their children seeing that? If that's not one of your values, that's fine, you do what works for you, but this is important to someone else.

This thread will only go downhill now, with people taking sides. It puts people on the defensive and causes an unpleasant atmosphere on the forum.