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amother
Peach
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 Sun, Mar 08 2020, 12:13 pm
| amother [ Lilac ] wrote: | Forgive me for being jaded, but I've heard one too many doomsday predictions to take anything seriously anymore.
Who remembers Sars, Ebola and anthrax?
Who remembers Y2k? People really thought the world was coming to an end.
I live in Miami Beach. 30 years ago, people were saying that in 10 years, the city will be underground. They are still saying it, and at the same time, buildings keep going up. (Hint: the city is still above ground, and is showing no indication of sinking.)
I've lived through the most horrific hurricane predictions, the most recent one causing 95% of Miami to leave. They said Miami would not exist after the hurricane. It turned out to be basically nothing. We are still here. The thing is, that for days beforehand the media was talking about it non-stop. People really suffered, not from the hurricane, but from the anxiety, traveling, fighting etc that was brought upon them thanks to the media hyping up the story.
This is true in the political arena as well. In 2016, the left-wing media were all predicting doom and gloom if Trump were to be elected. World wars and Nazism would return. We would all be in camps, or worse, dead. We are 3.5 years in and I think we can all agree that that didnt happen. I remember hearing the much of the same 8 years earlier regarding Obama. Somehow there will always be people predicting the end of the world as we know it.
There are people today who are saying that we are quickly running out of food to sustain the human population, so we should all stop bringing babies into the world. There's even a professor in some college teaching students that we should be EATING babies. (I kid you not. This is a real thing.) The thing to notice is the desperation these activists have when talking about their version of what's to come. They are really and truly panicked.
My point is that people run into "end of the world" mode very easily. They get angry at people on the opposite end who scoff at these predictions. They are consumed with anxiety and run themselves ragged to save themselves.
I don't know who is right. You can argue that those who saw the writing on the wall in pre-Nazi Germany were the ones who escaped in time. You can point to the Black Plague that claimed 1/3 of Europe before the crisis was over.
But as for me, after having lived through too many doomsday scenarios, forgive me for taking all this with a large grain of salt.
Wash up with soap and don't sneeze at people. Stay home if you are sick. But the constant obsessing? I'm too busy for that. Purim is coming. |
You realize that it is possible that those events weren't catastrophic BECAUSE they took preventive measures to stop them?
You can't say, if we took measures to prevent something and then it wasn't bad that the measures weren't necessary in the first place?
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amother
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Sun, Mar 08 2020, 12:29 pm
| amother [ Peach ] wrote: | You realize that it is possible that those events weren't catastrophic BECAUSE they took preventive measures to stop them?
You can't say, if we took measures to prevent something and then it wasn't bad that the measures weren't necessary in the first place? |
No. Most of those events were not controllable. The hurricanes and the city sinking was supposed to be inevitable. The people didnt survive the hurricane because they left; There was literally no major damage. People lost trees, but really it turned out to be just a bad storm. Y2k was just a scare. Maybe a few malfunctions, but if you are old enough to remember, they predicted that we would literally go back to the dark ages. Same with the food shortage scare.
Maybe you're right about some of the pandemic scares. Not sure.
The point I was making is that there's a strong sense of deja vu when I hear the hysteria. I should have been dead 20 times over by now. I can't help but just think that all this is just hype once again.
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nchr
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Sun, Mar 08 2020, 12:37 pm
| amother [ Lilac ] wrote: | No. Most of those events were not controllable. The hurricanes and the city sinking was supposed to be inevitable. The people didnt survive the hurricane because they left; There was literally no major damage. People lost trees, but really it turned out to be just a bad storm. Y2k was just a scare. Maybe a few malfunctions, but if you are old enough to remember, they predicted that we would literally go back to the dark ages. Same with the food shortage scare.
Maybe you're right about some of the pandemic scares. Not sure.
The point I was making is that there's a strong sense of deja vu when I hear the hysteria. I should have been dead 20 times over by now. I can't help but just think that all this is just hype once again. |
There is some sense of hype, but this threat is very real in its ability to overwhelm the medical infrastructure and result in serious economic and medical concerns. For example, what happens when a 40 yr old man needs to go to the ER with an asthma attack but cannot because of the risk of exposure or the lack of medical care? What about patients receiving chemo who can no longer be treated in hospitals? These are realities that can happen if the entire US gets sick at once. How likely are they to happen? I'm not sure, but that is what we are trying to prevent.
On the other hand, we could have had a virus like an avian flu that could be as contagious as measles and deadly as ebola which would have chv wiped out the entire planet so hype on that level is not appropriate. Most people who get this virus will be fine, even most people with comprised immune systems or who are elderly, but that doesn't mean reasonable measures are not necessary. The US is not implementing anything too extreme and is barely testing. Countries like S. Korea and Israel have done much more.
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Jeanette
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Sun, Mar 08 2020, 12:42 pm
Are you going to tell people who DID suffer devastating damage in a hurricane that their losses weren't real? Ask people who lived through Katrina. Ask people who lived through Sandy.
Even if the worst case scenarios don't come to pass (לא תקום פעמים צרה) that does not mean that the ones who DO suffer don't matter.
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small bean
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Sun, Mar 08 2020, 12:42 pm
South korea has .6 death rate because they are testing carriers as well.
It is no different in the flu in regards to who this is dangerou for, elderly and those with respiratory or orther illness. Intresting there has been no deaths to children under 10, that is different then the flu and I wonder why that is.
Because there is no vaccine, it ia scarier than the flu for those who fall into high risk groups. For those that are healthy, it is not scary at all and they should just go on living their life.
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amother
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Sun, Mar 08 2020, 12:46 pm
| amother [ Lilac ] wrote: | No. Most of those events were not controllable. The hurricanes and the city sinking was supposed to be inevitable. The people didnt survive the hurricane because they left; There was literally no major damage. People lost trees, but really it turned out to be just a bad storm. Y2k was just a scare. Maybe a few malfunctions, but if you are old enough to remember, they predicted that we would literally go back to the dark ages. Same with the food shortage scare.
Maybe you're right about some of the pandemic scares. Not sure.
The point I was making is that there's a strong sense of deja vu when I hear the hysteria. I should have been dead 20 times over by now. I can't help but just think that all this is just hype once again. |
Tremendous amount of software work was done in advance of 2k. It was a huge world wide effort. It’s not like magically nothing happened.
Was the 1918 pandemic just a false scare?
Was hurricane Katrina and hurricane Andrew false warnings?
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small bean
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Sun, Mar 08 2020, 12:47 pm
| Jeanette wrote: | Are you going to tell people who DID suffer devastating damage in a hurricane that their losses weren't real? Ask people who lived through Katrina. Ask people who lived through Sandy. Bu
Even if the worst case scenarios don't come to pass (לא תקום פעמים צרה) that does not mean that the ones who DO suffer don't matter. |
All death is sad but we dont panic about death in relation to heart disease every day. 1771 people a day die from heart disease. Do people panic about that? Or do we just continue living our lives?
You know how many people die from medical error evwry day 685. Do you panic when you are at the doctor that you might die from a medical accident?
This doesn't take away suffering from those who suffer.
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amother
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Sun, Mar 08 2020, 12:54 pm
| small bean wrote: | All death is sad but we dont panic about death in relation to heart disease every day. 1771 people a day die from heart disease. Do people panic about that? Or do we just continue living our lives?
You know how many people die from medical error evwry day 685. Do you panic when you are at the doctor that you might die from a medical accident?
This doesn't take away suffering from those who suffer. |
Heart disease isn't infectious. Coronavirus is.
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small bean
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Sun, Mar 08 2020, 12:56 pm
| amother [ Brunette ] wrote: | | Heart disease isn't infectious. Coronavirus is. |
So it is not sad if someone dies from heart disease?
There is pleanty a peraon can do to lower their chance of heart disease. You can do more to prevent heart disease then to prevent a virus.
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amother
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Sun, Mar 08 2020, 1:04 pm
| small bean wrote: | So it is not sad if someone dies from heart disease?
There is pleanty a peraon can do to lower their chance of heart disease. You can do more to prevent heart disease then to prevent a virus. |
What has being sad to do with it?
With a virus, your actions affect those around you as well so you can't only think about yourself.
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amother
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Sun, Mar 08 2020, 1:11 pm
| amother [ Brunette ] wrote: | | Heart disease isn't infectious. Coronavirus is. |
Even so, why aren't there a bunch of threads duscussing people dying as a result of medical error? In the next day, week, and month, there will certainly be more people who die due to medical error than the CV. Do you all not care about them? Not a single thread!
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amother
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Sun, Mar 08 2020, 1:12 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Even so, why aren't there a bunch of threads duscussing people dying as a result of medical error? In the next day, week, and month, there will certainly be more people who die due to medical error than the CV. Do you all not care about them? Not a single thread! |
You don't seem to understand the numbers here.
Without any quarantines and lockdowns the numbers would be way higher with the entire population affected.
100 people died in the past 24 hours in Italy, and that's with all their preventative measures in place.
The death toll in the northern Italian region of Lombardy has risen over the past day to 257 from 154, a local official said on Sunday.
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amother
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Sun, Mar 08 2020, 1:14 pm
Let's not try prevent terrorist attacks either. Way more people have died from other means over the past year.
Once we're at it, why prevent anything for that matter? Whoever dies from anything, many more are dying from something else. Might as well stop all medical intervention and just let everyone die at home. Like, why even bother?
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בעילום שם
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Sun, Mar 08 2020, 1:20 pm
A little bit of positive news
Hong Kong’s extreme measures to combat the spread of the coronavirus, including school closures and working from home, have brought an early end to the winter flu season, suggesting they might also be effective against the new disease, say experts.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=.....dMu3N
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small bean
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Sun, Mar 08 2020, 1:24 pm
| amother [ Brunette ] wrote: | Let's not try prevent terrorist attacks either. Way more people have died from other means over the past year.
Once we're at it, why prevent anything for that matter? Whoever dies from anything, many more are dying from something else. Might as well stop all medical intervention and just let everyone die at home. Like, why even bother? |
The only way to prevent is regular hygiene and regular consideration for others. You do not need to sit in your house all day in panic. You go about tour your life same way as before. And if you are sick stay home. That's it.
Just like you continue your life in regards to terrorist attacks. You continue to look out and report suspicious activities.
The hype is OPs point. There is no need for for hysteria and panic.
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dancingqueen
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Sun, Mar 08 2020, 1:28 pm
| small bean wrote: | So it is not sad if someone dies from heart disease?
There is pleanty a peraon can do to lower their chance of heart disease. You can do more to prevent heart disease then to prevent a virus. |
And doctors and public health entities encourage people to take steps to prevent And control heart disease. We should do hishtadlut to stay healthy.
Last edited by dancingqueen on Sun, Mar 08 2020, 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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small bean
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Sun, Mar 08 2020, 1:29 pm
| amother [ Brunette ] wrote: | You don't seem to understand the numbers here.
Without any quarantines and lockdowns the numbers would be way higher with the entire population affected.
100 people died in the past 24 hours in Italy, and that's with all their preventative measures in place.
The death toll in the northern Italian region of Lombardy has risen over the past day to 257 from 154, a local official said on Sunday. |
Actually they would he similar to the flu. Again not exciting but not panic inducing.
100k cases worldwide is minimal compared to 34mm cases in the US this year. 350k hospitalizations in regards.
Corona quick spread seems to be going down as the weather warms. We likely wont get to the amount of cases of Flu in the US to worldwide cases of Corona
Again be normal but don't panic is the point.
Last edited by small bean on Sun, Mar 08 2020, 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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small bean
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Sun, Mar 08 2020, 1:30 pm
| dancingqueen wrote: | | And doctors and public health entities encourage people to take steps to prevent heart disease. We should do hishtadlut to stay healthy. |
I agree. I just don't see any panic about it here.
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dancingqueen
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Sun, Mar 08 2020, 1:33 pm
| small bean wrote: | | I agree. I just don't see any panic about it here. |
I don’t see anyone recommending panic. But rather to take precautions as recommended by their health departments.
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small bean
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Sun, Mar 08 2020, 1:43 pm
| dancingqueen wrote: | | I don’t see anyone recommending panic. But rather to take precautions as recommended by their health departments. |
The amount of threads on here. People cancelling plans etc is panic.
The amount of conversation it is generating is panic.
And the fact that hand sanitizer and toilet paper are being bought in bulk is all panic. If you are in quarantine, you will be able to get toilet paper. You don't need to panic.
Honestly, I'm not a bit worried about it and outside of imamother no one I know is changing any plans or anything because of it.
Last edited by small bean on Sun, Mar 08 2020, 1:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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