Smart kid absolutely WILL NOT study and is failing

amother ↓

Tue, Dec 18 2007, 8:31 pm

Our 11-year-old son is smart enough to do perfectly fine in school. When he's interested in a subject, he does perfectly fine. When he's in the mood to do homework, he does perfectly fine. BUT he has some very strict and demanding limudei chol teachers who give very frequent tests and loads of homework, and he seems to have burnt out just a few months into the school year. He won't study for a test, ever. He puts the bare minimum effort (if any) into homework. I offer help and encouragement and have in the past DRAGGED him through studying for history tests and writing reports, etc., but it's literally like draaaaaagggggging him. It's painful.

What is so frustrating is that the kid IS really smart. He just WILL NOT get himself in gear. He has never really learned HOW to study but I have offered to work with him on it, teach him tricks, make it fun.... he won't. I've taken away computer time, lectured.... doesn't work. He doesn't care.

He is otherwise a happy (and often challenging) kid. He likes limudei kodesh - which makes me wonder if he should just not have to worry about history, science, English and just put all of his energies into limudei kodesh (and I think math is essential - and the other subjects can be learned informally at home, without the constant testing and FAILING. His self-esteem is going downhill fast. But argh!! The kid won't try!!

Tonight I told him that if he tried and failed, I would be proud of him for trying. But if he doesn't try and he fails - what's to be proud of?

Help

↑ Squash ↓

Tue, Dec 18 2007, 9:42 pm

amother wrote:

Thanks for replying... you say nothing motivated you. Nothing at all? Even temporarily? Did your self-esteem suffer or did you do OK once you were out of school?

Also - if you could have just NOT taken the classes you were failing, and concentrated on doing your best work in the classes you were motivated in... would that have helped?? Or would the possible embarrassment of "dropping out" of those classes have been worse than failing?

my self esteem definitely suffered. but bH once I was out of school I/it grew by leaps and bounds. bH bH.

and definitely, DEFINITELY would've been worse to 'drop out' and roam the hallways. I didn't need to concentrate more on the interesting subjects. I did very well in those classes without much effort. just wasn't interested/had no head for the others. and no. nothing motivated me.

↑ amother ↓

Tue, Dec 18 2007, 9:43 pm

OP again - also, I'm having a hard time just relating to the concept of not caring. When I was a kid, I always did my best, even in the subjects I didn't like. I may not have always done great, but I always did the work and studied, etc. I am completely baffled by my son's seeming lack of caring at all. Teachers send home notes, write F on his tests... he either doesn't care or he's a really good actor.

This situation makes me hate school - and I'm a kid who loved school! Why does a teacher have to write a big red F on a test and circle it? What does it accomplish, except to cut a kid down? Crying

↑ amother ↓

Tue, Dec 18 2007, 9:45 pm

Squash wrote:

and definitely, DEFINITELY would've been worse to 'drop out' and roam the hallways. I didn't need to concentrate more on the interesting subjects. I did very well in those classes without much effort. just wasn't interested/had no head for the others. and no. nothing motivated me.

Let's say you didn't roam the hallways, but sat somewhere quiet and got a jump on your homework. And let's say you didn't spend MORE time on the other subjects, but you had a clearer head for them and more mental energy overall because you weren't overloaded and burnt out... Question

↑ Squash

Tue, Dec 18 2007, 9:54 pm

amother wrote:

my mother c'dn't understand me either. but to her credit, she never pressured me. she always just pointed out how I was totally wasting my years. and to some extent I do regret it. but she never made me feel bad about it. not even in an indirect way. she always, genuinely, sincerely gave me the message in many ways (speaking and otherwise) that ther person I am as far as midos, and ehrlichkeit, etc is what counts to her.

and I do understand your point with the big red f circle 4 times. like I wouldn't have noticed if you'd written it in blue ink in the corner.

↑ amother ↓

Tue, Dec 18 2007, 9:55 pm

I have a child like this. I was going to post with my name, but out of respect to my child, I will make it anonymous.

He was about 11 when I went to his English teachers and asked them to explain to me what th eproblem was with him, and they told me that just because I had one out of many children who was "normal" while the others were above average, I was being neurotic.

Stupid me, I trusted the teachers.

He was totally excelling in his Judaic studies and his secular studies he was flunking out in.

Cut a very long story short, he has learning DIFFERENCES (not difficulties, but differences). He has a processing problem. He struggled to read. He could do it, but it was a struggle.

He is an incredibly smart child, and a wonderful child. He used to come home and tell me he had no homework, when his classmates were doing homework for about 4 - 5 hours at night.

Eventually, in about 8th grade it came to light that he DID know the work that was being taught and he just couldn't put the information down on paper. I took him to an Occupational Therapist who revealed to us that he had processing problems.

I had him assessed by someone else who specializes in Dr Mel Levine's methods (I've mentioned him before, he has a couple of books : A Mind at a Time and "The Myth of Laziness" ) and at that assessment we found out that our son has an incredible MEMORY, which is why he was doing so well in Judaics, because everything there was taught ORALLY, whereas in English/Secular studies they were told to 'read and repeat'.

Anyway, I left it too late to do anything about it, but I think you should seriously get your child assessed. Many children who are struggling and don't want to say they are, or may not even realize it, shut down and don't try to do the work they keep failing at.

Don't rule out learning differences.

Check out Dr Mel Levine's website: www.allkindsofminds.org

I know that the New York school system was emplying his methods called "Schools Attuned" and its well worth looking into it.

↑ amother ↓

Tue, Dec 18 2007, 10:00 pm

Tamiri wrote:

Boys will be boys. I will advise: leave him alone. Get the responsibility for HIS success off YOUR back. Let him fail. It doesn't matter. What matters is that he knows it's HIS life. We all have ad 120 to prove ourselves.
Good luck

But the other boys in his class aren't failing... and although I don't feel responsible for his success (or failure), I do feel that it's my responsibility to help him and protect him from the emotional damage I see happening because of the failure.

It DOES matter if he fails - not because having failed history or whatever will negatively affect his life in any practical way, but because the experience of failing and feeling like a failure is affecting him now and will be something he has to deal with as a part of him later, one way or another.

I have no doubt that once he's out of school and can be who he is and have a real life, he will do fine. I wish I could take him out of school but right now I can't do that - or believe me, I would.

And - I have left him alone to do his work, or not, and deal with the consequences from the teachers. I don't nag but do try to encourage and help, and I don't let him have computer time if he refuses to do any homework at all. Beyond that, it IS entirely on his shoulders, and he totally doesn't care and so this is where we are now, with the Fs and the notes home from teachers... not pleasant at all!

↑ amother ↓

Tue, Dec 18 2007, 10:07 pm

amother wrote:

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Boy did this resonate with me!!! (OP here)

My son is just like yours. I couldn't have written all of what you wrote. And I have a feeling you're right about processing issues - for example, I recently found out that although my son's vision is perfect, his eyes don't track well together (?) - so he now has glasses that help tremendously with reading... but most of the time he doesn't wear them, and he usually does not bring them to school. When he does, he does better.

And as far as learning orally and avoiding reading, etc. - yes yes yes. He likes science class because he "just has to sit and listen." He loves Talmud and Chumash and does well (and those teachers think he's wonderful). But he can't stand being told to "read chapter 5 and answer the questions and there will be a test on it on Tuesday." He just can't bring himself to crack open the book.

I'll check out the website you gave. Thank you so much. I have a feeling you are leading me in the right direction. Your post made me cry!!

↑ amother ↓

Tue, Dec 18 2007, 11:31 pm

ONe of the things that I found out too late is that you can get text books from "books on tape" for the blind. English books, etc.

Maybe what you need to do to help him is, firstly, read the work out loud of him when he comes home, and then have him to do his homework, OR get the tapes for the blind.

The eye tracking thing, there are exercises you can do for that, even if you have 20/20 vision. Another thing, in Judaics, the kids are taught to read with their finger POINTING and in secular studies they are admonished for that.

You have to find someone where you live who can do the "Schools Attuned" assessment for your child, and then go to the school with the results.

Dr Levine has such a wonderful positive upbeat way of helping the kids use their strengths to compensate for their weaknesses, and you have eto have teacher cooperation.

Let me know if there is anything else I can do to help and encourage you to find what you need.

Good luck.

↑ amother

Wed, Dec 19 2007, 1:26 am

I was/am like that too. I was in the top class at school and was one of the first to answer questions or understand concepts. I concentrated in class and did well on tests. I managed to maintain a B average through school.

I had a few subjects - history, geography, art history in High school - that I did not do well in and that was because we were told to read X.
I did well on tests that tested understanding of concepts, but not regurgitating of facts. I HATED having to read chapters of textbooks and then summarise or answer questions. I almost never did homework, but often got excited about certain projects. My teachers always complained I was lazy and an underachiever and I agreed with them, but I didn't care because I still did okay.

I don't know what would have motivated me, but I defiitely am an audio learner (retain knowledge that's spoken/heard). Although I'm an avid reader and I can read really fast. I just don't like reader for information's sake. I guess I am just lazy LOL

I agree with the PP that if you can find a school that teaches in a way that he absorbs, he'll do much better.
B'Hatzlacha