I'm speechless | Imamother

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> In the News

I'm speechless

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

↑ roses ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 5:54 pm

freilich wrote:

To be clear I’m not discussing people who have this physical disorder. Which is very very rare. I’m talking about the people who are thinking that they are wired the wrong gender.

Are you implying that people can choose whatever they want? That definitely puts a different spin on the subject. Let’s say I have some needs. Can they be met? Say I have sensory issues and can’t handle being dressed. Which happens to be a real issue for some individuals. Does that allow me to walk out naked in the public??

Let’s say I have OCD. Does that allow me to go around spraying disinfectant onto others?

So while your right, people don’t fit into neat boxes in many aspects. Gender was and will always be determined clearly. I’m sorry to burst your bubble here.

The prevalence of a disorder- whether high prevalence, or low, doesn't make it any less of a real issue. And the existence of these disorders mean that many people are definitely living with no clear cut gender category. As much as you want to say that gender "was and will be determined clearly" it's simply not scientifically true. That's how Hashem created the world.

We accommodate people with all kinds of disabilities, despite how rare they may or may not be. Building codes require handicap/wheelchair access. Public bathrooms are required to be wheelchair/handicap accessible. Despite the low prevalence of wheelchair bound individuals in public spaces. Why would some disabilities require accomodations and not others?

And furthermore, there are many psychiatric conditions that can contribute to gender dysphoria, and that could also be categorized as diagnosable psychiatric disabilities- for those that choose to qualify or identify as that way. In America, we don't discriminate and we are required to accommodate people with disabilities.

The examples that you gave of people committing crimes- those are crimes. No one is advocating for crimes to be allowed for whatever reason. Just reasonable accomodations for people with differences.

↑ shyshira ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 5:59 pm

chanatron1000 wrote:

Sorry, but I can't see that as anything other than fearmongering meant to scare me into gender discrimination. And I don't think that male clothing, deep voices, Adam's apples or facial hair make someone a man, or that lacking them makes someone a woman. Why should it matter what gender someone is at all?

I’ll generalize - women expect that in a women’s restroom they will see women only. A person walking in who looks like a man may be alarming.

↑ roses ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 6:01 pm

chanatron1000 wrote:

The question wasn't posed to fear monger. The question was posed to elicit thoughtful response.

If people think into it, I think many would not want people using the bathroom based on their genitalia, and would feel more comfortable in bathrooms with people who share the same gender expression.

In terms of your question about why should gender matter at all, I personally don't believe it should. I don't see the benefit to all the hysteria over transgender bathroom issues or why anyone really needs to pay attention to what's under someone's clothing. Why does gender matter to you in relation to public bathroom use?

↑ freilich ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 6:04 pm

roses wrote:

What makes it a crime to walk naked in the street?

Fox ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 6:07 pm

Jeanette wrote:

This is a very well thought out post.

I also wonder how much of the gender/culture wars is due to LGBTQ trying to push their agenda of destroying traditional gender norms, and how much of it is scaremongering from the right. So often you hear stories on the RW media of what people on the left think or want or demand that is completely distorted.

Let's say 90% of LGBTQ just want to be free to live their own lives in peace, be able to go to the doctor when they need to without harrassment, be able to get jobs, rent apartments, etc. just like everyone else. But is there a minority that is motivated by an agenda?

The claim in the master cake shop is that they davka went after that bakery because they were conservative christians, when they could have bought a cake anywhere else. Should LGBTQ davka target the most conservative businesses and demand that their marriages be recognized? Is there room for negotiation and compromise? Can they say, look, we get that not everybody is holding there yet, and if they don't want to recognize gay marriage we shouldn't try to force them? Or is it an essential human right that they need to fight to preserve?

(I'm asking these questions, I don't have the answers.)

I'm going to cause everyone heart palpitations by agreeing with Joy and Jeanette.

However, I'll add a detail that I believe impacts this conversation:

Conservative media and commentary is increasingly dominated by gay men, and most conservative gay men think the whole trans identity thing is a fad and just an excuse for LGBT activist organizations to continue to justify their existence.

They believe, in general, that marriage equality was the last big hurdle to full equality, and that these organizations should now concentrate on legitimate problems in LGBT communities that are not necessarily related to victimhood.

Fox News is dominated by gay men even more than most. I've forgotten all the names, but between producers and on-air reporters and hosts, the number of gay men is disproportionate to a high degree.

So a sensational story aimed at undermining more extreme trans advocacy is not necessarily being green-lighted to frighten Grandma in Indiana; it's being green-lighted because of an internecine fight within the LGBT coalition.

There is also a great deal of concern among conservative gay men and lesbians that transitioning to another gender will become de facto conversion therapy, almost as it is in Iran. The believe that it will be entirely too tempting to tell gay/lesbian teens that they're really the opposite gender.

Conservative gay men and lesbians are especially angered by polls that show Zoomers (18-24 year olds) to be less tolerant regarding LGBT individuals than Gen Xers or Millenials. They attribute this, rightly or wrongly, to extremism in advocacy. This year, boycotting Pride Parades became a thing because they tend to glorify promiscuity and s-x in ways the boycotters think misrepresent the vast majority of LGBT people.

There is also a lot of anger over the continued harassment of Masterpiece Cakes. They think that LGBT people are strengthened by specifically not insisting everyone validate their preferences. In other words, "we want to be treated civilly, but we don't need you to love us." Dave Rubin and Ben Shapiro did a rather cringe-worthy show on this topic.
_________________________

This is just one more way in which old alliances and allegiances are crumbling. Instead of Evangelical Christians wagging their fingers at gays, they're standing together shaking their heads at non-binary people.

↑ roses ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 6:17 pm

shyshira wrote:

Who ever is making these supplies available is affected.

Yes.
So there is a requirement for disability accomodations in public spaces, at a cost to the facility. And there is a requirement for equal accomodations without discrimination in regards to gender in public spaces as well. So there is the affect of increased cost for public benefit.

However, this cost is similar to other expenses such as the requirement to install grab bars in bathrooms. Or the requirement to have baby changing stations in bathrooms. Or breastfeeding accomodations where they are required.
All of these accomodations pose a cost, for the public benefit of equal access and accomodation of people's health or medical needs.

↑ roses ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 6:20 pm

freilich wrote:

What makes it a crime to walk naked in the street?

The crime of indecent exposure, which can land you on the S-x offender registry

DrMom

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 6:24 pm

sushilover wrote:

You using the unscientific and impossible term "menstruating men" is a bit shocking to me, that's all. It's like someone using the term "human cats" seriously. Are there people who feel like they are actually cats? Yes. Do they deserve compassion and respect? Yes. But I will never talk about them as actual cats because that would be an untruth.

As a human cat, I found your post to be very triggering and offensive. Moderators! Please censor immediately.

Also, I demand kitty litter in all public restrooms.

↑ shyshira ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 6:29 pm

roses wrote:

I don't think a tampon machine is a disability accommodation, in any bathroom. I don't think its an accommodation at all.

Regarding cost. I would consider not just cost of the machine, and restocking its contents - but the costs associated with dealing with plumbing issues from a misuse of the contents.

↑ roses ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 6:31 pm

shyshira wrote:

I’ll generalize - women expect that in a women’s restroom they will see women only. A person walking in who looks like a man may be alarming.

I agree with this.
Which is why I personally would prefer that people self-assign bathrooms based on their gender expression, which 99% of the time includes outward appearance.

That's why I don't understand the whole bathroom hoopla. Do people really want it the other way?

ETA:. I'm going to add in- 100% of the time in my experience. I have never been in a public bathroom where someone who presented as male was there. And I circulate through very liberal geographical areas.

↑ 1untamedgirl ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 6:34 pm

DrMom wrote:

As a human cat, I found your post to be very triggering and offensive. Moderators! Please censor immediately.

Also, I demand kitty litter in all public restrooms.

Its a human dog-eat-dog world out there, human cats need not apply.

↑ imasinger

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 6:37 pm

shyshira wrote:

Anyone buying a tampon in a public restroom has probably used them before, and hopefully knows about the plumbing concerns. But you do raise an interesting question, and I don't know the as answer -- do the men's rooms with tampon machines also have those little wastebaskets in the stalls?

↑ roses ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 6:38 pm

shyshira wrote:

It may or not be a required accomodation. I don't know. I think this would probably be a locally legislated issue, so it would be dependent on local laws. If it would be available in the women's bathroom as a requirement though, I don't see the justification for gender discrimination and not providing in both.

The best solution to the cost issue would be to make the products available outside the bathroom, in between male and female, so they are available to all who need.

↑ 1untamedgirl ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 6:38 pm

roses wrote:

Menstruation is a disability now that needs to be accommodated? Hmm. Sounds like all girls/women can now qualify for SSDI. Where do we sign up? Do we need lawyers or doctors or used tampons to help us with the case or is it an automatic qualification simply by saying that we get our periods?

↑ shyshira ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 6:39 pm

roses wrote:

I think people would prefer that people stick with gender on their originally issued birth certificate.

↑ shyshira ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 6:41 pm

imasinger wrote:

My concern isn't the people purchasing (or taking the free) tampon for their indented use. I think the arrival tampons (especially if they are free) in the men's would trigger some poor behavior from the general population.

↑ roses ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 6:43 pm

imasinger wrote:

If they don't, it's a good idea to have them. Many men use sanitary products- incontinence pads in particular. Prostate issues are extremely common in older men, and urinary incontinence is very prevalent.

↑ roses ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 6:45 pm

shyshira wrote:

They can be general sanitary product dispensers. Including incontinence pads (as I mentioned above). In fact, making these products readily available can reduce the stigma many men experience from incontinence issues, and can provide a universal public benefit.

↑ shyshira ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 6:48 pm

roses wrote:

They are readily available - in the pharmacy.

↑ freilich ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 6:48 pm

[quote="roses"]The crime of indecent exposure, which can land you on the S-x offender registry[/quot

Who decides indecent exposure is a crime?

Page 6 of 8

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next