I'm speechless | Imamother

↑ sushilover ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 10:09 pm

Honestly, I don't think discussing the bathroom issues is hugely important 99% of the time. The important question is; are we going to punish people for speaking scientific truths in public spheres?

Do you agree or disagree with this tweet from J.K. Rowling?

Dress however you please.
Call yourself whatever you like.
Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you.
Live your best life in peace and security.
But force women out of their jobs for stating that relations is real?
#IStandWithMaya #ThisIsNotADrill

↑ roses ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 10:10 pm

[quote="freilich"]

roses wrote:

The crime of indecent exposure, which can land you on the S-x offender registry[/quot

Who decides indecent exposure is a crime?

Every state has laws against indecent exposure. Lawmakers established those laws

↑ freilich ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 10:18 pm

[quote="roses"]Every state has laws against indecent exposure. Lawmakers established those laws

Agree. So lawmakers decided this is the law. What will happen, down the line, when the people will ask for this law to be changed, to accommodate sensory people?

Where does the line stop? Where will this end? I don’t remember the outcome, but there was a man who was fighting to change his birthday. He claimed his body was acting 10 years younger. There must be some truths that will always stay truths, if not we are heading to a lawless environment.

And therefore, I reiterate, male born male is male. Female born female is female. I don’t care if you feel like a female when you have male genitalia. We abide by the truth of the Torah

↑ roses ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 10:18 pm

sushilover wrote:

This is a UK issue.
The UK has pretty strict speech laws. I don't know the context of the case or how it impacted the employee who was targeted.

In the US, free speech is protected in public spheres, but not in the workplace. So speech that would be considered harassment, discriminatory or hostile would be grounds for termination as well as a big fat lawsuit against the employer. Every professional workplace I've worked on in has strict harassment policies in place, for good reason. First, they want a professional environment. Second, an environment free of hostility increases productivity and workplace safety. Third, no one wants to be sued.

So violating a harassment policy would get someone terminated very quickly .

↑ 1untamedgirl ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 10:22 pm

[quote="freilich"]

roses wrote:

Every state has laws against indecent exposure. Lawmakers established those laws

Agree. So lawmakers decided this is the law. What will happen, down the line, when the people will ask for this law to be changed, to accommodate sensory people?

Where does the line stop? Where will this end? I don’t remember the outcome, but there was a man who was fighting to change his birthday. He claimed his body was acting 10 years younger. There must be some truths that will always stay truths, if not we are heading to a lawless environment.

And therefore, I reiterate, male born male is male. Female born female is female. I don’t care if you feel like a female when you have male genitalia. We abide by the truth of the Torah

Regarding the bolded, the guy lost his case. https://fox40.com/2018/12/03/d.....nger/

↑ roses ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 10:23 pm

[quote="freilich"]

roses wrote:

Regarding the Torah, the Torah recognizes intersex conditions and there are halachic discussions about them. So I don't think your opinion of exclusive binary genders is a Torah position. Or a "truth" of any sort.

And your argument about "what will happen when people will ask for this to be changed"- again, that's just silly. Indecent exposure is a crime because it harms other people. No one is arguing to be allowed to hurt other people. People are arguing to be allowed to care for themselves freely, without discrimination. It's that simple.

One has nothing to do with the other.

↑ freilich ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 10:30 pm

roses wrote:

It’s one thing to recognize intersex conditions. Quite another to build large edifices on it. The Torah recognizes that the condition exists. It doesn’t allow transition though

Well, I am being harmed by people who invade my privacy in public places. Why doesn’t this count? Why can you ignore my needs of feeling safe, I feel very discriminated here.

Who’s not allowing them to take care of themselves freely? They are being helped by the government and medical community. Do I also need to assist them?

↑ shyshira ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 10:30 pm

freilich wrote:

Agree. So lawmakers decided this is the law. What will happen, down the line, when the people will ask for this law to be changed, to accommodate sensory people?

It will go through the democratic process.

↑ sushilover ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 10:30 pm

roses wrote:

The employee in question never harassed anyone. She calls people by their preferred pronoun in person. She simply stated the biological reality that a man cannot become a woman, and she was fired for that.
Do you agree or disagree that a woman should not be fired for stating that a man is a man? I'd love to hear your opinion.

↑ freilich ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 10:32 pm

1untamedgirl wrote:

Regarding the bolded, the guy lost his case. https://fox40.com/2018/12/03/d.....nger/

Poor boy! What an unfair world we live in!

I’m sorry, is he a boy a man? Or ....so confused here, sorry I said anything

Al cheit

↑ shyshira

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 10:32 pm

sushilover wrote:

Did you read the ruling document?

↑ 1untamedgirl ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 10:36 pm

[quote="freilich"]

roses wrote:

They will need to protest the laws to change it. Its best to protest naked to really get your message across.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/c.....f2da4

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wire.....37626

Or they can paint their bodies and have their pictures taken with the cops--
https://www.cosmopolitan.com/l.....-day/

↑ roses ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 10:47 pm

itsmeima wrote:

This got me thinking, why do we need separate bathrooms?

I'm feeling dumb, or tired Can't Believe It

I have no idea. I think the best idea would be gender neutral bathrooms with stalls that go from floor to ceiling for increased privacy. I see no reason why men, women, and gender non confirming people can't wash and dry their hands side by side with one another.

↑ 1untamedgirl ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 10:50 pm

freilich wrote:

And I’m thinking, why do we need bathrooms at all..

Be like the people in San Francisco and defecate on the streets... No need for bathrooms in San Francisco, are you jealous?

https://www.businessinsider.co.....019-4

https://www.ocregister.com/201.....ilet/

↑ roses ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 10:52 pm

sushilover wrote:

Where did she say it?
What was the context of the comment?
How was it said?

I would need a lot more information before I could opine.
Off the cuff, if I was the employer and there was a possibility that an employee was making harassing comments at work about someone's gender identity, I would let them go. But again, context is everything, so I would need to understand more.

↑ roses ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 10:56 pm

1untamedgirl wrote:

This is so incredibly sad. Can you imagine living on the streets, homeless, without a bathroom to use? Is this the kind of existence you would want for yourself or a family member?

I fail to understand why someone would think it is funny to joke at the expense of homeless people.