 |
|
 |
 |
|
|
Forum
-> Judaism
|
↑
amother
↓
|
 Fri, Dec 07 2007, 10:08 am
Cassandra, are you translating the word "shtark" here to mean "strong", as in discipline, and as you say
| Quote: | | I think "shtark" here implies more of a drive to do something difficult. | ??
I think the women here meant shtark as someone who does many minhagim and chumras that's accepted in their community.
| |
|
| Back to top |
 0
|
↑
cassandra
↓
|
Fri, Dec 07 2007, 10:11 am
|
Read my post above. Kind of OT, I know, but I was just trying to show that the word can be used in different communities and imply different things. I know how it was being used here in reference to different types of chasidus. By "Here" I meant in my circle.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
|
↑
chocolate moose
↓
|
Fri, Dec 07 2007, 10:32 am
|
The word shtark is never used in Chabad, as far as I know. Everyone just does the best they can.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
|
↑
louche
↓
|
Fri, Dec 07 2007, 11:36 am
| cassandra wrote: | | "Shtark" is a positive description, but not being "shtark" is not a negative in this case. |
Same here. Means "strong" and is ussed to escribe someone who puts his all into the endeavor, whatever it is. Also someone of very strong faith, or someone who withstands a lot without breaking. As in "Mrs. X. went through so much in her life, early widowhood, a disabled child, two wars, but she's always cheerful. She's really shtark."
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
|
↑
Motek
↓
|
Fri, Dec 07 2007, 1:18 pm
| chocolate moose wrote: | | The word shtark is never used in Chabad, as far as I know. Everyone just does the best they can. |
first I heard it used was by the poster shira, whose husband is learning in kollel (not chasidish)
it's not generally used in yeshivish circles
seems like it comes from the MO crowd who move to the right, like Shira
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
|
yoyosma
|
Fri, Dec 07 2007, 2:15 pm
I know this is a stupid question and I actually feel bad asking it, but is there an emphasis on beautiful jewelry and designer clothing for children?
When I go to Williamsburg I always notice the impeccably and expensively dressed kids and their mothers always wear large and expensive looking earrings.
Is it because makeup isnt allowed so one accessorizes another way? Is any makeup allowed?
Also, I noticed that Hiddur Mitzva is very much emphasized with regard to Judaic articles and I think that is beautiful. Is it true in all cases?
Correct me if I am wrong, but I heard that unlike Lubavitch there arent necessarily Horaos from the Rebbeim as to how one should act and that even if the Rebbe says that one should act a certain way, people dont feel like that its Halacha for them. True?
What is the meaning of the word 'fleck' and who does it apply to? Are there certain specific hair styles for girls? Are there still any communities where girls wearing their hair in two braids is considered the norm, or has that been phased out?
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
|
↑
anonmommy
|
Sat, Dec 08 2007, 1:40 pm
"shtark" is a very common word in yeshivish circles.
certain chassidim in meah shearim still have their girls wear two braids until they get engaged.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
|
↑
Raisin
|
Sat, Dec 08 2007, 2:32 pm
| Quote: | "shtark" is a very common word in yeshivish circles.
certain chassidim in meah shearim still have their girls wear two braids until they get engaged. |
Not just in Meah Shearim, also in other cities. I think it's Reb Ahrele Chassidim.
Also I thought, it was 2 plaits until they reach an age to get married, and then it's one plait. (Not sure what they do when they are engaged)
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
|
rachel19977
↓
|
Sat, Dec 08 2007, 4:51 pm
|
And how come some of the chassidish ladies that you meet in the street/park/store won't answer "hi" or just stare at you like you have a bug on your face when you ask them a question? I went to school with Skveree girls and it happend to me cuz I was the only 'litvish' girl in the class, as soon we were out of school and I saw my fellow 'classmates' in the street/wedding/store - they looked at me as if they never saw me in their life. Now the question is WHY? Just because I'm not chassidish like you - I don't get respect as a fellow JEW? And now 12 years later, in a different country - it's the same thing. WHY?
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
|
↑
creativemommyto3
↓
|
Sat, Dec 08 2007, 6:35 pm
|
Maybe I have just been lucky, but whenever I got up close and personal with any chassidish lady they were always warm and nice to me. That is why I started this thread because I wanted to learn more about these nice and warm ppl. Does anybody really say hi to those they don't know? Could it be that these girls were acting like plain old girls. Depending on the age, I don't think Litvish/MO/etc. girls are any less cruel.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
|
↑
bashinda
|
Sat, Dec 08 2007, 7:42 pm
I find some ladies and girls in my own neighborhood not to be nice and friendly and also look at me like I'm from Mars when I say hello (not a lot but let's say roughly 20-25% of people I say hello to) so maybe it's the same with them or maybe it's not realizing that there is such a thing as a frum Jew who doesn't dress their levush and that they're simply confused by it but you'd think in BP at least which is pretty heterogenous in terms of the frum yidden who live there why they would not have that type of confusion and I get it there also.
But definitely I've met some wonderful chasseedish people so don't stereotype a very large number of ladies based on those ladies.
Also it's one thing to meet someone one on one and to see someone on the street. People behave differently in either situation.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
|
↑
rachel19977
↓
|
Sun, Dec 09 2007, 1:02 am
I'd love a Chassidish lady to answer my above question.
Also, how come when one goes into a community like Monsey, why do you have to get stared out and play war with the chassidish men driving? My parents & sister (they are litvish) live in Monsey and I've been there plenty to see.
How come when you take a walk on a nice Shabbes afternoon do some of you let your children play outside and throw balls at people, curse, downtalk, and not answer 'Gut Shabbes' as the custom is there? Just because I'm not dressed with beige stockings and wearing a robe/snood/wig w/ a hat like you? Just because my child isn't complety shaved bald and has curly paoyes like your child? Or perhaps when before I was married, how come your child called me a shikse? Because my hair wasn't in a ponytail and cut shorter then my shoulders? Because I wasn't dressed the way you were?
I've had plenty of horrible experiances at Lakewood and Monsey and Boro Park. I've been tought in the school I went to, a certain Chassidish one in Boro Park, that "We are better then everyone else and treat everyone that isn't like you in a lesser way."
Why? Isn't ALL JEWS the same? How come isn't anyone accepting of another 'religioun style'? How come two chassidish worlds feud? How come isn't anyone teaching their child to be accepting of someone else even if they aren't dressed? We are still jewish.
DO you know how many people went off the derech because of certain people's behaviour? How come Chabbad is the only leading 'chassidus' that accepts any jew, even not religous and has the power of bringing a person back? Why can't everyone do it? The reason why Mosiach isn't here yet is becuase of hateward towards one another and the fellow jew. Think about it.
Why aren't people teaching their children how to behave and be accepting? Simple words from a babe's mouth can do wonders.... Bring a person back or turn him.... And I do have loads of stories about this, but I'll stop now.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
|
|
↑
amother
↓
|
Sun, Dec 09 2007, 1:23 am
I dont think anyone is going to answer your post Rachel19977. This thread was supposed to be for people to ask curious questions nicely. Your post was bashing. We dont have to defend ourselves. There are answers to your questions but you wont accept them anyways.
And I just love how people are sure they know the reasons why other people go off the derech. 
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
|
↑
Maya
↓
|
Sun, Dec 09 2007, 1:25 am
| Quote: | | I'd love a Chassidish lady to answer my above question. |
I am Chassidish, and I can answer your question.
I understand that you are upset, but really, there is no reason to be. The kids in my own building sometimes debate in front of me, in Yiddish, whether I am a Yiddishe woman or a shikse.
The kids are not exposed to anyone that's not like them, and the parents want it to stay that way. I don't think it's right or okay, but that's the way it is. They are afraid of outside influences.
I guess it depends on how smart parents are; you can't change everyone, though.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
|
↑
Maya
↓
|
Sun, Dec 09 2007, 1:32 am
| amother wrote: | I dont think anyone is going to answer your post Rachel19977. This thread was supposed to be for people to ask curious questions nicely. Your post was bashing. We dont have to defend ourselves. There are answers to your questions but you wont accept them anyways.
And I just love how people are sure they know the reasons why other people go off the derech. |
I answered her question. But you were definitely right. She was totally disrespectful.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
|
↑
Mama Bear
↓
|
Sun, Dec 09 2007, 1:36 am
|
I'm also going to answer her question: I have aboslutely no clue what she is talking about!
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
|
↑
creativemommyto3
↓
|
Sun, Dec 09 2007, 2:14 am
| rachel19977 wrote: | I'd love a Chassidish lady to answer my above question.
Also, how come when one goes into a community like Monsey, why do you have to get stared out and play war with the chassidish men driving? My parents & sister (they are litvish) live in Monsey and I've been there plenty to see.
How come when you take a walk on a nice Shabbes afternoon do some of you let your children play outside and throw balls at people, curse, downtalk, and not answer 'Gut Shabbes' as the custom is there? Just because I'm not dressed with beige stockings and wearing a robe/snood/wig w/ a hat like you? Just because my child isn't complety shaved bald and has curly paoyes like your child? Or perhaps when before I was married, how come your child called me a shikse? Because my hair wasn't in a ponytail and cut shorter then my shoulders? Because I wasn't dressed the way you were?
I've had plenty of horrible experiances at Lakewood and Monsey and Boro Park. I've been tought in the school I went to, a certain Chassidish one in Boro Park, that "We are better then everyone else and treat everyone that isn't like you in a lesser way."
Why? Isn't ALL JEWS the same? How come isn't anyone accepting of another 'religioun style'? How come two chassidish worlds feud? How come isn't anyone teaching their child to be accepting of someone else even if they aren't dressed? We are still jewish.
DO you know how many people went off the derech because of certain people's behaviour? How come Chabbad is the only leading 'chassidus' that accepts any jew, even not religous and has the power of bringing a person back? Why can't everyone do it? The reason why Mosiach isn't here yet is becuase of hateward towards one another and the fellow jew. Think about it.
Why aren't people teaching their children how to behave and be accepting? Simple words from a babe's mouth can do wonders.... Bring a person back or turn him.... And I do have loads of stories about this, but I'll stop now. |
If I am correct to say that you live in Israel, then you should know that there are litvish who act this way too. That isn't the point. There are wackos in every group. There are many wonderful yeshivish and many wonderful chassidishe ladies.
When I was growing up MO(meaning that everything was done out of route and no care, at least in my family) I also thought they were looking at me wearing short sleeves etc. Now that I am older and more frum I realize that it was my neshama saying to me that maybe wasn't acting/dressing the way I should have been.
In fact it wasn't until I got married and lived under two stoliner families that I came to appreciate chassidim. My grandfather was chassidish but I didn't know him b/c of family complications until I was 16. He lived in florida and was niftar two months after I met him. The women I lived near were nice and the only reason why I wasn't happy there was b/c of the fact that I couldnt' relate to them b/c I was having my first when they were having their 11th. I needed to be around more young couples and to be able to use the eiruv!
Going to the la leche league in boro park also helped. The leader is vizhnitz and most of the members were chassidish too. Going to those meetings taught me a whole lot more than just how to nurse my baby!
I went to williamsburg with my friend and to me it felt like I entered a little world where the Jewish Torah life was supreme. The heimishness was palpable. I was treated so nicely in every store I went into.
That's all I have time to write right now, but I think that both yeshivish/chassidish women are absolutely wonderful. There are wackos in every group.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
|
↑
rachel19977
↓
|
Sun, Dec 09 2007, 3:44 am
I was going to post not under my name those questions, but I am bringing to light what was on my mind for a long long time and I've never gotten answers to.
If you see me as disrespectful, then so be it. I don't mean to be that way. I'm asking questions that other people wouldn't dare to ask.
Yes, people shelter their kids, okay I don't have a problem with that. But that doesn't give right for the kids to curse, throw things, stare and say mean things. Okay I understand a little kid staring. But a grown woman? I speak english, yiddish and hebrew. When asking your fellow jew in the heart of Monsey or Israel, or saying hello at the park, does not mean you have to look at your fellow jew and just stare and look at you "like you are from Mars", is a nice way to put it. Maybe I've met the 'wackos' in the group, but it's too many times.
No, I'm not mad at certain chassidish groups, but it boggles my mind when certain behaviours are not corrected and it's outright disrespect to the Torah. I've asked Rabbi's about this and even they agree that just because they do certain things doesn't mean it's right. I can go on and on. No, I don't wear mini-skirts, tight jeans and un-covered hair when these things happened. I'm just your regular plain Jane with regular completely covered hair - mitpachat, long skirt well past the 4" under the knee, long sleeves and not 'tight' top. Is that wrong?
creativemommyto3- yes in every group there is people that act like that, litvish too, I was just pin-pointing more chassidish groups cuz it happend to me, my sisters and other people I know, more in that area.
momtomor - sorry if I come out as disrespecful. How was I disrespectful?
amother - amother that posted how I asked. Well, I don't think I can chalk it up in a nicer way. No one wants to hear the things I said anyhow, how can it be nice the way I say it? Sorry if it came out offensive. Feel free to PM me, since I speak to many people who don't want to go back to the 'faith', and have no interest in returning if they left, because of certain people's actions every day. I'm sorry if people don't want to belive that. But there are many things that people do every day that are not Torah way and turns off the fellow jews. In my line of 'work' it's a very hard slap in the face and the stories I've heard, seen and experianced are in no words to describe.
momtomor - Are you litvish? Where do you live?
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
|
|
↑
amother
↓
|
Sun, Dec 09 2007, 4:19 am
I don't see how that was disrepectful, she was saying her own experiences which many ppl have gone through and choose not to discuss it (like me) because it just brings back bad memories and unwanted angry feelings towards our own brothers and sisters. I have grown up in the chassidish world AND litvish world at the same time. I see how parents want their children sheltered and exactly how they are raised. I have seen the right way and the wrong way it can turn out. There are amazing wonderful chassidish children and then there are rude impoperly trained children. And YES there is the same situation with litvish children but NEVER to the same degree. I have lived in America, Israel, and the UK in several communities. Sorry to say this but it is the same in all of them. The only children that I haven't seen this in is Sefardic children.
Apologies if this comes out bashing. I am simply stating my own experiences, and am just feeling shocked how all these words came out on their own, maybe because I just hold it in all the time!
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
|
↑
Mama Bear
↓
|
Sun, Dec 09 2007, 12:07 pm
|
When ANYONE comes over to me toask for directions or help or just to say hi, no matter if she's wearing a burka or uncovered hair, I'm friendly and responsive and even try to strike up a conversation. When I see a stranger in the park or restaurant who looks like sh can use some company, I'll make small talk. I can't saythe same for every women in myneighborhood,but there are plenty of women like me around here. So, I cant relate to your gripe at all.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
|
|
Imamother may earn commission when you use our links to make a purchase.
© 2024 Imamother.com - All rights reserved
|  |
 |
|
 |
|
|
