Clueless guests s/o (why was it locked?)

amother

↑ Copper ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 1:43 pm

amother [ Olive ] wrote:

The difference is - if the single men are still at the table - its not common etiquette or whatever that the women should be cognisant that they should leave the table.

We usually don't have single male and single female guests together.

amother

↑ Copper ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 1:46 pm

amother [ Olive ] wrote:

People say "let me walk you to the door" all the time. If that's not ridiculous (its actually good manners) , then neither is walking someone to their room for the night.

Blonde said let me show you to your room. That's different than what you are saying.

amother

↑ Olive ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 1:51 pm

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

We usually don't have single male and single female guests together.

Great!

Even easier.

"Good night ladies - DH is going to use the dinning room to read now - the succah room is available to you to continue to schmooze. Let me show you where it is".

Assuming you don't want to 'feel bad' about not hosting these women - a small amount of communication will help them understand the etiquette you find they are lacking.

amother

Papaya

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 1:54 pm

OP, I don't understand.
At one am, are only the single ladies there with dh? Or are there also married couples present?
If it's the latter, then maybe there is a party type atmosphere, and the single ladies see no reason to get up. You can't be selective in how you get your guests to retire to their rooms; you can't say, only marrieds get to stay now.

If only single women are hanging out with dh at one am, then they might be a bit socially off. In fact, by the way you present them as nebach cases with nowhere else they could possibly be, I suspect they are social oddballs. Either that, or your dh gives them the impression that he really enjoys socializing with them.

If only single women are left with dh at one am, then you can use the suggestion a past poster gave, and tell them you left the light on in another room for them, and there are magazines and snacks there, or whatever.
Or, if they are so socially off they still don't get it, then perhaps dh would do best if he just moved with his sefer to a different room. Does it really matter so much to him where he is studying?

Also, I am curious. Your OP sounds very similar to other scenarios that have come up here in the past. If you are the same person who has posted previously, you seem to surround yourself with social oddballs (trust me, most single women are very with it), and you seem to embrace an almost medieval form of gender segregation. And you keep rejecting every single solution that people offer!

amother

↑ Olive ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 1:59 pm

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

With the first, it sounds like your guests are too stupid to remember where their rooms are.

But when you show someone to the front door of the house - why does that not sound stupid?

In anycase - if you don't like that phrase don't say it.

State what your husband will be doing - and offer suggestions for what the women should be doing.... as you, their hostess have left them alone (ie you are not entertaining them) earlier than 'bed time' for healthier adults.

↑ groovy1224

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 2:06 pm

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

The facts have never changed. DH is not uncomfortable if his single male guests are up late with him. Can you really not see the difference?

I think people can see the difference. It's just that you never really, fully explained the scenario. At some points it seemed like it was DH alone with the single women, at times DH with married couples, and now you're saying single guys.

dankbar

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 2:30 pm

I think if your husband would take out a sefer & start learning, even he's in same room as them ( he at the table learning, they at couch shmoozing) then usually they would leave room on their own or if they do stay to chat among themselves & husband would just ignore them & do own thing it would be fine. It seems like the problem is that your husband thinks he needs to entertain them while you are gone. If he is socializing with them why would they leave in mid of conversation, that wouldnt be socially acceptable. They might even think that they are doing him a favor to listen to him. They might just enjoy chatting among themselves ( the single girls one with another) once you left

↑ SixOfWands ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 2:35 pm

groovy1224 wrote:

Not to mention the fact that we're now talking about 1 am, when before, we were talking about immediately after bentching, in a meal that was sometimes hurried so that OP could stay until the end. So I figured 9 pm at the latest.

amother

↑ Tan

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 2:55 pm

would it help at all if you reframed the whole idea of hosting them in your mind? until now youve been mentioning a lot how you dont really want to host them but you re just doing them a huge favor- instead how about , I am getting a huge mitzva by doing the mitzva of hachnossos orchim, espc for guests I and my DH are not so comfortable having so the greater the discomfort the more zchusim I am getting for me and my family.
yes the mitzva is hard but we are getting so many points up there.

because you have also mentioned many times how it is stupid to put their comfort first before your DH, but Im sorry to say that just isnt true or correct..

there have been many many stories of tzadikim and even regular people who have done just that- put the comfort of their guests above their own for the pure sake of doing a mitzva.
Is this something that helps at all? otherwise just ignore.

amother

Firebrick

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 2:57 pm

Am I the only one actually reading?

The op of the other thread as well as copper on this one, is making perfect sense at least to me.
The meal in question is a meal where there are usually no other guests and it is awkward that single females are lingering at the table with her DH. It sounds like this is the most common scenario so why is everyone harping on whether or not there are other couples there when op never said there are?

She goes to sleep, they keep hanging out in the same room, dH feels uncomfortable.

Op, I completely understand that they miss the social cue and completely understand yours and dH discomfort but they probably never realized it's a problem. A little gentle and kind communication is totally appropriate I don't think it's rude. If the guests find it weird then it's their choice to come for shabbos or not.

amother

↑ Copper ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 3:03 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

How does finishing a sudar at 9pm work when Shabbos is after 8 pm?

amother

↑ Olive ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 3:04 pm

amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:

That wasn't the fact OP originally gave. In the original DH liked to linger at the table with who ever was at the table.

amother

↑ Copper ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 3:05 pm

amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:

Thank you.

↑ SixOfWands ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 3:10 pm

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

How does finishing a sudar at 9pm work when Shabbos is after 8 pm?

When a family member is ill, and needs to go to sleep early, most people would bring in Shabbat early. Where I live, you can bring in Shabbat as early as 6:50, and davening at our shul is at 7:10. Which makes it easy to finish by 9, particularly where the OP mentioned that meals are not prolonged due to her illness.