I'm losing my nerves on my sons behavior

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> School age children

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amother ↓

Sun, Nov 18 2007, 8:41 am

I'm having real discipline issues with my son. I feel like my house is a constant battle field. He's constantly chutzpa, no matter what is said to his advantage or not, he always is not happy with it. He feels he needs be in total control of everything and everyone in the house and everyone has to do exactly what he says. There is no rationalizing with him. He hurts his younger brothers if they don't listen to everything he says. My father commented a few times how my son is impossible with his chutzpa. (And he does have 18 grandchildren, some with actual behavioral problems)
I'm at my wits end, and he's only 5 years old. What's going to be when he's a preteen or a teenager? What about his siblings? They will only learn behavior from him.
I know I'm probably making my son into a monster, which he is not. I don't think he has any real behavioral issues (I.e. add, adhd) He's at the top of his class in learning and his teachers love him (although they do say that he is very stubborn)
I'm wondering where he messed up and what kind of discipline can we do. I hate the constant screaming at screaming at him and timeouts (they do not work anyways) and I never imagined raising my kids in a totalitarian.
My dh suggested that maybe getting my son into sports with release some energy. I cannot see how once a week sports can do anything. But I thought maybe the idea of my son taking him out once a week with out the other kids for some sort of sport, like swimming or ice skating might make him have a more positive relation with our Crying

son.
I NEED HELP!
Where do I turn?
We do not know anyone to talk to, I suggested a Rav, my dh said he'd go ask to make me happy, but he cannot see what a halachik authority can help with child discipline.

Clarissa

Sun, Nov 18 2007, 9:03 am

I'm usually not a big fan of these "systems" and how-to books, but a psychologist I know recommended this book called Transforming the Difficult Child, The Nurtured Heart Approach, by Howard Glasser, and I found it helpful at dealing with those moments. It's about turning negative behavior into positive behavior. I haven't adopted the whole system they use (too complicated and time-consuming for me), but I'm using a lot of what he taught, and I've seen some real improvement.

It's perfectly normal for kids to start testing limits at that age, but we need to figure out how to deal with it when it crosses a line.

chocolate moose

Sun, Nov 18 2007, 9:29 am

I think sports is a great idea. I don't know about ice skating, though; is it mixed?

btMOMtoFFBs ↓

Sun, Nov 18 2007, 10:13 am

amother, please PM me. I just finished a 6 month parenting class based on the teachings of Rav Wolbe that deals with exactly what you're speaking of and more. Totally l'maaseh class taught over the phone to women-only.

I loved the class so much and found the instructor so useful that I'm taking it again.

Hatzlacha!

gryp

Sun, Nov 18 2007, 10:21 am

Quote:

Is he an oldest, btw? I see some similarities in my 4 yr old "oldest."

He's only 5. Does he even know when he's being chutzpadik?

e1234

Sun, Nov 18 2007, 10:35 am

we have a real rough 2 past years with my oldest 7 year old boy.

def like what you are describing..
it turns out he's really suffering in school... finally came to what's bothering him (part of it a vision problem that caused school problems)
we are working on the issues but I have the same thing.
I feel like I have no discipline -- he rules when he's home..

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Nov 18 2007, 11:22 am

chocolate moose wrote:

I think sports is a great idea. I don't know about ice skating, though; is it mixed?

a school here organizes skating, for men only, every other week

hadasa

Sun, Nov 18 2007, 11:30 am

I'd just like to point out that I've seen many terribly stubborn, violent, difficult children turn into the most wonderful, pleasant, well-adjusted teenagers. So there may be light at the end of the tunnel.

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Nov 18 2007, 11:31 am

btMOMtoFFBs wrote:

Can you tell me a bit about Rav Wolbe. I never heard of him.
Thanks

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Nov 18 2007, 11:38 am

Quote:

I'd just like to point out that I've seen many terribly stubborn, violent, difficult children turn into the most wonderful, pleasant, well-adjusted teenagers

Tzaddikim too ! Avraham Oveinu for one.....................

Tefila ↓

Sun, Nov 18 2007, 11:56 am

I will say one thing if you don't tackle it now then it may be harder down the road! Otoh what u would consider chutzpah someoene else would interpret as independance so can you give an example?

happymom ↓

Sun, Nov 18 2007, 12:30 pm

all kids like to feel in control. no person as well as children like to feel that what they feel and want dont matter.

thats why its very important to make them feel that what they say feel and want DO matter, and however they feel, even if its different then the mother, thats fine, it just matters how its said.

for example. I told my daughter something that I needed her to doi. she said I dont want to. I told her "I know you dont want to, is it hard for you to do this? you know, when a mommy asks us to do something and we do it EVEN if we dont want to that is a HUGE mITzvah because we are not listening to our yeitzer harah! (she knows all about that cuz we talk about it...)

I have a big mitzvah tree for her and when she does the right thing we sing the mitzvah song!

everything shouldnt be a battle. u have to pick and choose. for example, If I pick out something for my daughter to wear and she wants to wear something else, I let her, because who cares! im not gonna make what she should wear a fight when it really doesnt matter. yes, if it happens more then once, I tell her, this is your choice, that shirt, or that shirt, and we arent choosing again. But to not let her wear a diff shirt the first time, whats the big deal??

also, if she tells me something in a chutzpadik way, I just tell her the right way to say it, the way we talk to a mommy, and she does it right away. kids dont always know (actually most times dont know) what to do with negative feelings and they have to be taught!

kids act out when something is bothering them, thry are tired, or they are being treated in a negative way, which makes the act negatively for the negative attention theyll get and becuase of that feeling that they arent lovable (because of all the critisism)

so I say pick your battles wisely, give lots of choices so they can feel in control, validate thier feelings, and ALWAYS emphasise the POSOTVE! we have to catch our kdis doing the RIGHT thing and comment on it so they want to do it more!

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Nov 18 2007, 12:33 pm

Quote:

I'm wondering where he messed up and what kind of discipline can we do

I hate to say this, but maybe u are the one that messed up? which is ok cuz u can still fiz it! but usually when kids act up its because of the adults parenting style that needs to be changed for that child.

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Nov 18 2007, 12:36 pm

Quote:

He hurts his younger brothers if they don't listen to everything he says.

maybe because similar things are done to him when he dosent listen to what u say. u yell at him, punish him..... thats teaching him to do the same.

thats why I dont think yelling and punishing is the way to go. u can give choices and consenquences and reward good behavior. also try hard and figure out what is btoherg your child

↑ Tefila

Sun, Nov 18 2007, 12:47 pm

Also I have learned from experiance that children need to have drilled in. That some things only Mummy and Tattys can do, have the right and priviledge ( doesn't have to be excercised though). When they are a Mummy and Tatty then they too will decide wether to use that right or not.
Yes there is a double standard we are not on the same level and the younger a child realizes that the better it will be in raising them.

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Nov 18 2007, 1:55 pm

Quote:

When they are a Mummy and Tatty then they too will decide wether to use that right or not

this will be good and only work if its done in the right way. if its said for everything and for things it doesnt need to be it will cause alot of anger which will make the child act up. so it depends. if the parent is positive, and parenting right, then this will be effective in teaching this when needed. but if not, it will just make the kid more upset becayuse nothing is fair in that childs mind.

↑ btMOMtoFFBs

Sun, Nov 18 2007, 8:59 pm

amother, Rav Wolbe (pronounced Vohl-bah) was a chinuch GIANT in E"Y. He passed on a few years ago, but he was quite cognizant of the chinuch and discipline problems facing this generation.

This course is all L'Maaseh tips on how to use consistent discipline to teach your children how to behave the way you want them to. Mostly you use consistent wording when disciplining, sticking to your punishment and not backing down if the child has a tantrum, and tons of positive reinforcement. You will learn a lot of tips on how to achieve these methods.

The class is very deep - you'll learn how to handle chutzpah, a whole host of discipline issues, fighting, sibling rivalry, transmit a love of Torah and mitzvos to your children, and I can't remember everything, but its very deep.

Anyway, Hatzlacha with your DS!

↑ amother ↓

Mon, Nov 19 2007, 9:29 pm

amother wrote:

Quote:

I'm wondering where he messed up and what kind of discipline can we do

I did mean to write 'where WE messed up" it was a typo

↑ amother

Mon, Nov 19 2007, 10:36 pm

oh.

I hope u dont mind my opinion since u did ask...

It seems he can be learning this from u. from your negative attention and yelling and negetivity it is making him feel like hes a good for nothing and making him act up.

why not try the positive approach? that works wonders!

NotInNJMommy

Mon, Nov 19 2007, 10:41 pm

A rebbetzin I'm close with said both her oldest, a boy, and according to her MIL/FIL her husband as well, were just WILD when children. I don't know about chutzpadik, but very active. Climbing all over, getting into everything, getting corporal punishment from their rebbes in school!

Her son is now a yeshiva bochur with smicha (and, last I checked in recently on the market! Smile

) and her husband is a rosh yeshiva, and they are both talmidei chochamim and so eidel, one would never guess they were so wild in their youth...

That doesn't make now easy. It's lots of work, but wild children can still grow up to be tzadikkim!

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