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-> Lakewood, Toms River & Jackson related Inquiries
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amother
Indigo
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 Tue, May 28 2019, 12:46 pm
the gashmiyus problem is pervasive in all cities with large Jewish populations, all over the world. If you want to deny that it is not prevalant out of the usa, you are pulling the wool over your eyers.
I wonder where we are going wrong as a frum society?
What are we teaching the girls for 12 years of limudei kodesh?
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amother
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Tue, May 28 2019, 12:56 pm
| amother [ Cyan ] wrote: | Well said. I have similar feelings about choosing where I want to live.
There is nothing wrong with such a lifestyle it's just not for me.
If u don't mind me asking aqua - where do u live? |
Not in the US - and on the outskirts of the Jewish Centre of my city.
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amother
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Tue, May 28 2019, 1:00 pm
| Squishy wrote: | | The problem with expensive people is that when they are widespread, the standards become increased for ordinary people. |
I don't think you understand my usage.
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PinkFridge
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Tue, May 28 2019, 1:00 pm
| amother [ Indigo ] wrote: | the gashmiyus problem is pervasive in all cities with large Jewish populations, all over the world. If you want to deny that it is not prevalant out of the usa, you are pulling the wool over your eyers.
I wonder where we are going wrong as a frum society?
What are we teaching the girls for 12 years of limudei kodesh? |
We are living in a superficial world. This is one way it manifests itself in our lives.
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amother
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Tue, May 28 2019, 1:01 pm
| amother [ Periwinkle ] wrote: | | Quote: |
in terms of moving someplace with lower standards, I feel like the people with higher standards are moving to different communities and bringing it with them. Not sure if anyplace is "safe". |
Agree!
I live OOT and ironically there are 3 sets of people here - the couple of families who are super wealthy and who everyone knows are wealthy, the regular middle class/low class people who moved OOT for a better quality of life and then the "Lakewood kollel" people. This group is the one that boggles my mind. Their kids are by far the best dressed, they almost all own beautiful houses of which they did renovations to, and they push their bugaboos and doonas around a new one for each child.
Sure, it's their money (or their parents) but it is infiltrating into our communities and schools and it's becoming harder and harder to raise children in a society where these are the Klei kodesh who are "sacrificing" for learning |
I don't know where you live. I'm part of an oot Kollel and are familiar with a few of them. The ones I know don't have the materialism you describe. I work full time and BH have a very good job. The other Kollel members (current and previous) live simple lives with all wives working at least part time. I have a house, but the down payment and mortgage payments are from my salary. I also pay full oot tuition ( not as common). We never had support, don't take govt money, and we don't have bugaboos etc. Someone from the community once tried to give me a hand me down high quality stroller. I didn't take it because I was embarrassed to be seen with it
We are former Lakewood Kollel types. I'm not doubting your description. I don't know where you live. But the communities I'm familiar with are not like that.
Analyzing other people's finances doesn't always lead to accurate info. I know people say I have a house and am stealing their tuition discount (they said it to me). I'm sure there are other people thinking it.
Also, oot Kollel people do a lot of free work. Hosting is expensive. My husband doesn't get paid for all the extra shylas, shiurim, klal work he does. And it takes up a lot of time. I'm not begrudging it. I'm happy he does it. But, please let's not assume things about people.
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amother
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Tue, May 28 2019, 1:17 pm
Haven't read through all the pages but just wanted to say we know someone who found that her neighborhood was not the environment she wanted for her children, so she sold & bought elsewhere.
OP, you've said you can't move but sometimes you can rent your house & rent elsewhere. I live in an 'old' part of Lakewood as do most of my kids. We do not follow the latest styles or live a fancy lifestyle.
I should qualify that, two of my kids rent very large homes but they haven't changed their standards.
When looking at houses for sale my kids drove down the block first. If they saw the children were outside playing in outfits that cost more than I would spend on myself, they crossed that house off the list.
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amother
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Tue, May 28 2019, 1:21 pm
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are OOT kollel people always expected to host? We live OOT. we've been invited to heads of the kollel once when we first moved in and never by any of the avreichim. I've been living here a number of years. My dh learns at the kollel but not with any of the kollel avreichim. I don't actually care, just find it interesting that it seems that people often say that OOT kollel people are expected to host. Maybe it's a general thing and we just aren't who's invited or maybe they need to invite specific types of people like people who aren't frum.... I don't know, just find it interesting.
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amother
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Tue, May 28 2019, 1:24 pm
| amother [ Brown ] wrote: | Haven't read through all the pages but just wanted...
When looking at houses for sale my kids drove down the block first. If they saw the children were outside playing in outfits that cost more than I would spend on myself, they crossed that house off the list. |
Can u specify which neighborhoods fit within ur standards??
Im.not looking to bash just asking honestly as we r considering our options
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amother
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Tue, May 28 2019, 1:27 pm
| amother [ Coffee ] wrote: | | are OOT kollel people always expected to host? We live OOT. we've been invited to heads of the kollel once when we first moved in and never by any of the avreichim. I've been living here a number of years. My dh learns at the kollel but not with any of the kollel avreichim. I don't actually care, just find it interesting that it seems that people often say that OOT kollel people are expected to host. Maybe it's a general thing and we just aren't who's invited or maybe they need to invite specific types of people like people who aren't frum.... I don't know, just find it interesting. |
We are. There may be some that don't. I don't mind hosting. I like it. I was just trying to say we do things for the community.
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amother
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Tue, May 28 2019, 1:32 pm
| amother [ Brown ] wrote: |
When looking at houses for sale my kids drove down the block first. If they saw the children were outside playing in outfits that cost more than I would spend on myself, they crossed that house off the list. |
I cant move for several reasons. One of them being an at home business that we did a lot of renovations to accommodate. That would be money drained and a big deal to do to a rental home.
Hindsight is 20/20. I didnt even knew people like this existed until my kids started making friends with "expensive people" and brining them into my house and opening my eyes to what was out there...
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amother
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Tue, May 28 2019, 1:37 pm
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aquamarine- do you have to invite everyone in the community or only certain people or can invite whomever you want- just curious...
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forgetit
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Tue, May 28 2019, 1:52 pm
Torah U'gedulah B'makom Achas seems to be a praiseworthy situation, according to the Torah.
And it is totally ok for people to live within their means-no matter how wealthy or where they live. In fact, if they fall upon hard times we are obligated to give them tzedaka according to their means. The problem is when those of us (yes me included) don't have the means to buy/do certain stuff and do it because we allow ourselves to feel pressure.
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amother
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Tue, May 28 2019, 1:56 pm
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We are supposed to focus on ppl that we think will benefit from the Kollel, go to my husband's shiurim or we think would like an invitation. We expanded that to new people and people who we think need or would like a place. It probably varies by Kollel.
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Rappel
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Tue, May 28 2019, 2:26 pm
Things I can say after reading this thread:
1) I don't think kollel members are required to suffer, any more than any other human being.
2) As Rebbetzin Levinger once said: "Luxury is slavery. You think it isn't? Try living without it."
Last edited by Rappel on Wed, May 29 2019, 6:56 am; edited 2 times in total
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amother
Jade
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Tue, May 28 2019, 2:30 pm
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We moved to a kiruv neighborhood of a bigger oot community. Absolutely no gashmiyus pressure here even though plenty of people with money. So refreshing but sad that we frummers put these pressures on ourselves. My girls have very little knowledge of the frum fashions, even though they enjoy clothing. BH!!
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Mommyg8
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Tue, May 28 2019, 2:36 pm
| Squishy wrote: | | I am puzzled by this. They don't have any payroll deductions? I couldn't buy food extras, nice clothing, new cars, vacations and sleep away camp for a family half their size on that amount of money. |
It's very common for grandparents to help out with these things, especially if they are in chinuch or kollel. Also, there is a huge Earned Income Credit refund which gives these families more money.
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amother
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Tue, May 28 2019, 2:41 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | I cant move for several reasons. One of them being an at home business that we did a lot of renovations to accommodate. That would be money drained and a big deal to do to a rental home.
Hindsight is 20/20. I didnt even knew people like this existed until my kids started making friends with "expensive people" and brining them into my house and opening my eyes to what was out there... |
I live on a block with very few houses, basically all like minded yeshivish families, no pressure whatsoever on anthing (beside maybe one family), but my kids are exposed to peer pressure in school! Big time!!!
It comes with raising children. No matter where you live unless you live in a bubble you will have to be mechanech your children not to compete with "the Jones"!!!
And ultimately, it is our responsibility to teach them what's important and what's not and which message we want them to be left with.
Not an easy job!
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amother
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Tue, May 28 2019, 2:46 pm
To the poster above who was getting defensive about my post regarding the OOT kollel people where I live...I'm not sitting here figuring out what they spend their money on
What I was pointing out is that these people are bringing their gashmiyus standards into our cities
I don't know if they pay tuition, I don't know how much the wives work...but I do know that there are many, many other people who live here that DO pay full tuition and DO work hard and they don't have to have the latest fashions, strollers, shaitels, etc.
It used to be you could move OOT and feel like you were getting away from all that, but it's no longer the case.
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amother
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Tue, May 28 2019, 2:49 pm
| amother [ Vermilion ] wrote: | I don’t know why people who are in kollel have to live simply. If they have the money let them spend it.
We live in Lakewood but are not in Kollel but I don’t get why people begrudge those who are in kollel. |
Because it directly contradicts the Torah around which their lives center. That's why. All of us are supposed to live more simply, and give to others. Myself included, and my husband and I work full time.
Materialism is supposed to be the enemy, isn't it? The way of life that contradicts what it's all about? But somehow we all shrug and say to ourselves that "it doesn't harm anyone" and yet I know a lot of people who are harmed.
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