Electricity on YT?

Ruchel ↓

Wed, Aug 29 2007, 9:36 pm

I recently met a girl who told me her family uses electricity on Yom tov.
I had heard of a few people doing it, but assumed it was wrong.

I did a quick search online and found this shock

http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/.....ml#12

Problem of this list, it doesn't say if it allows people to do it for a mitzva, if needed or just when wanted...

My dh told me people are not supposed to do it unless it is their custom (for example a Moroccan), and even for them it's better to be machmir since it is a minority opinion. He also said the argument to forbid it is doubt about physical laws ("when in doubt, abstain") and also people mixing up with shabbes, so it's not such a strong argument!

Anyone heard of it? Anyone doing it?

shalhevet ↓

Thu, Aug 30 2007, 4:38 am

When you turn on electricity you create a new spark, so it is creating fire and not adding on to an existing one.

I also remember we once had some distant relative to stay and she told us that you can use electricity on YT. traditional people will tell you you can do all sorts of things - eat in vegetarian/milky restaurants; go mixed swimming; take a handbag to shul where there's no eruv etc etc.

The fact that unfortunately people have got used to doing things against halacha, so that it seems permitted to them, proves nothing.

It is accepted today amongst all poskim that you are not allowed to use electricity on YT so it's irrelevant that in the past there were poskim who permitted it. For most issues you can find someone who was a da'at yachid (one person) permitting/ forbidding something whereas we follow the vast majority of poskim who say something different.

↑ shalhevet

Thu, Aug 30 2007, 6:54 am

Marion wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

take a handbag to shul where there's no eruv

You can...on yom tov.

LOL, I meant Shabbos.

Now that I reread my post I also saw that I meant to say eating in veggie/milky non-kosher restaurants (before you catch me on that one too, Marion Wink

Raisin

Thu, Aug 30 2007, 2:40 pm

shalhevet wrote:

Marion wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

take a handbag to shul where there's no eruv

You can...on yom tov.

LOL, I meant Shabbos.

Now that I reread my post I also saw that I meant to say eating in veggie/milky non-kosher restaurants (before you catch me on that one too, Marion Wink

I once overheard a conversation at my shabbos table by two traditional students. (one was trying to explain precise level of frumkiet to the other)

"I used to eat vegetarian food in not-kosher resturants, but now I will only eat in vegetarian (not kosher) resturants."

Hopefully this person has carried on progressing!

I know someone who is shomer shabbos except for the fact that they carry a handkercheif in their pocket, and change channels on the tv.

↑ Ruchel ↓

Thu, Aug 30 2007, 3:42 pm

Interesting, thanks!

Many if not most Mo I know do eat in some treif restaurants and go mixed swimming/dancing lol
Carrying with a eruv I see less often though, but I see Mo people pushing carriages a lot.

Mom2Three ↓

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 11:58 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I find it hard to consider someone MO (or any kind of O) if they in treif restaurants, etc.

amother

Wed, Sep 26 2007, 7:41 am

[quote="Ruchel"]Interesting, thanks!

Many if not most Mo I know do eat in some treif restaurants and go mixed swimming/dancing lol
Carrying with a eruv I see less often though, but I see Mo people pushing carriages a lot.[/quote]
at least they wait 5 minutes after they take the cheese off the cheeseburger
to eat it . Twisted Evil

many mo are glatt kosher in and out of their homes

↑ Ruchel ↓

Wed, Sep 26 2007, 10:10 am

Come in Europe and see.
I can tell you almost no Mo is glatt kosher! It is a chareidi thing for us, not to mention for most people outside of Paris and a few other cities there is NO glatt meat around at all. You have people who drive 200 kms for stam kosher meat (not to mention old and disgusting tasting). You all think you know everything, but life is not as easy as in America and Israel.
I see better why my friend who made alia wants back if she's not even considered Mo for a dessert in a restaurant! shock

Someone who has nothing in a treif restaurant, here, is generally charedi. And I know some charedim who have sushi.

Last edited by Ruchel on Wed, Sep 26 2007, 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ Ruchel ↓

Wed, Sep 26 2007, 10:37 am

I could also talk about the city of XXX. When the butcher closed (the meat was so bad it was, litterally, nauseating), people had the choice to go to Paris (far enough to take the plane) or.....

Many people switched the children to treif meat and abstained themselves. Others gave in.

Then a new hashkafa arrive in XXX, with their own meat that came from Paris, but they separated from the mainstream. They built their own shul and mikve, and refused to sell their meat.

Later they started selling, at huge prices.

↑ Ruchel ↓

Wed, Sep 26 2007, 10:51 am

I know the situation is different (much stricter) outside of Europe. But I'm not going to start judging people by foreign standards. I know what I see and hear around, I know I have seen charedim having sushi in a treif restaurant in my town because someone with the black hat and a wife in sheitel and tights is charedi...
Maybe next time I should take pics and post, so people will stop insulting us.

↑ Ruchel ↓

Wed, Sep 26 2007, 11:01 am

Ah, the non Jew house was such a problem when I was in middle school and wanted to eat at friends... I did like I do now at the non kosher Jewish houses, I ate cold stuff in paper plates, or bread with jelly or Nutella... I always tried to have my friends eat at my house, easier... "what's that?? bread with onions on top??" oh the memories

↑ greenfire

Wed, Sep 26 2007, 11:09 am

the point is you wouldn't eat their cooked food ... from non-kosher pots ...

we might be spoiled with the American Jewry and all the Kosher eateries ... but most people (although some might and do) would not eat in an unkosher restaurant ... for any reason ...

↑ Ruchel ↓

Wed, Sep 26 2007, 11:15 am

Maybe they would if they were raised around people who do. Now I agree suddenly starting doing it, I don't think many would do. But it makes me laugh to know women with a sheitel wouldn't be considered Orthodox!

↑ Mom2Three

Wed, Sep 26 2007, 11:40 am

I didn't mean to insult you, Ruchel, honestly. And you're right. I don't know how it is to live in Europe. But when I think of "Orthodox", it seems that the baseline would be kashrut and shabbat observance (and of course TH). I would think of someone who is shomer kashrut and shabbat as orthodox even if she doesn't cover her hair. I know conservative Jews who wear a tichel all the time, yet eat only "kosher style"...even they don't call themselves orthodox. I guess I can't conceive of someone who eats in treif restaurants as considering themselves to keep kosher. I know it can be hard, even though I'm sure its much easier here than over there. I myself have to drive more than an hour twice a month to buy kosher meat. And we simply do not eat out because there is no kosher restaurant around us. It just drives home the fact that Jews are meant to live in community and how life will always be hard for us while we are in galut. So we work that much harder toward our goal of getting to where we need to be.

Please accept my apology if I have hurt you. Sincerely, that was not my intention.