Do you find rules stifling?

amother

↑ Seashell ↓

Wed, Aug 01 2018, 11:06 am

shoshanim999 wrote:

Absolutely, to some extent this is true. The people who lived a few hundred years ago didn't feel stifled that they didn't have indoor plumbing and didn't realize what they were missing and didn't feel burdened by their situation. It's a little different today where many people have different chumros but openly see others not living that lifestyle. For example a chassidish woman might feel burdened by the inconvenience of not being allowed to drive. She sees her neighbors driving so she might feel the burden more than someone who lives in an area where a woman driving is considered y'harog v'al yavor.

The women in Saudi Arabia felt stifled by not being able to drive, even though it was a ye'hareg ve al ya'avor for a woman to drive till this past year.
I guess people feel stifled when they realize the restrictions are unfair and unreasonable, just a power play to keep them down.

↑ LovesHashem

Wed, Aug 01 2018, 12:43 pm

amother wrote:

Again, that totally depends where they live. There are a lot of cities out there where it is virtually impossible to get hold of kosher food, and you have to make it all yourself, and order meat from abroad. Nowhere to get a coffee or a pizza or an ice cream. It's very difficult to live like this, especially for the woman who usually gets stuck with the food prep, or for older teens who can't go out to eat anywhere.

When you grow up OOT it's not stifling, you don't know anything different.

amother

Aquamarine

Wed, Aug 01 2018, 1:05 pm

There are at max 7 chukim out of the 613 Mitzvos there are in the Torah.

There is obviously a reason for that. yes there has to be kabolas ol, that is the foundation, but in order for there to be a “geshmak” for Torah and Mitzvos, there has to be a reason we understand.

So yes, I agree- I have felt the most stifled in my life when I have gone to school and they imposed these ridiculous rules on us. As a parent , I still find school stifling and the rules are just meant to control the masses as opposed to educating children, but like most people, I have learnt how to “deal” with these rules.

↑ Mommyg8 ↓

Wed, Aug 01 2018, 4:16 pm

I think that what I find stifling are rules that random people make up because they are trying to be "holier" and impose those rules on the masses. Their motivation is often not pure, and these rules often tend to backfire.

It was Rav Moshe Feinstein who famously said that the reason so many people left Yiddishkeit was because they heard over and over again עס איז שווער צו זיין א איד - it's hard to be a Jew. Who wants to follow something that's so hard? So they left.

Instead of looking for more and more chumros, I think we would be much better off looking for more ways to make Yiddishkeit fun. I know I'm not going to change the world, but I can try to change my little corner of it, and that's what I am trying to do.

amother

↑ Jade ↓

Wed, Aug 01 2018, 4:33 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

This is about attitude not about fact. There were people who struggled in the same way but didn't krechtz about it. R Moshe was saying that we need to give over the joy of yiddishkeit to our children. he was not saying that we should not keep chumros.

↑ Mommyg8 ↓

Wed, Aug 01 2018, 5:06 pm

amother wrote:

I will find it for you when I have a minute.

Also, where does it say that yidishkeit should be fun? Ivdu es Hashem besimcha, there are pesukim about rina, chedva but fun? I don't think there is even a word in loshon hakodesh that denotes fun.

I think we'll agree to disagree.

In any case, I was talking about arbitrary rules made up by random people, not real chumros.

amother

↑ Jade ↓

Wed, Aug 01 2018, 5:07 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Is this a fact or opinion?

quote from R' Moshe Feinstein
אלא שמאלו היה הרבה משפחות שבניהם עזבו דרך התורה ולא שמרו שבת ובאו לר' משה זצ"ל לשאול איך יתכן דבר כזה שאחרי שהם שמרו שבת עם מסירת נפש שהבנים יחללוהו. וכידוע השיב להם שמכיון שלא שמרו שבת עם שמחה אלא שאמרו שק' להיות יהודי לכן הבנים עזבו הדרך. ובאמת יש לדעת מה היו צריכים לעשות להיות בשמחה שהרי באמת היה קשה מאוד. וביאר ר' משה שם בדרש משה שהטעות שלהם היה שהם חשבו שמחמת שמירת שבת הם מפסידים מכספם ולכן היה ק' להם לשמור שבת אבל האמת אינו כן אלא כל מזונותיו של אדם קצובין לו משנה לשנה ואם לא ירויח בשבת ירויח ביום אחר ונמצא שאין שום הפסד בשמירת שבת ולמה נפלו פניהם. וזהו יסוד גדול מאוד בענין חינוך הבנים שאם הילדים רואין שקל להורים לשמור מצוות גם הם יעשו כן.

It is about having a positive attitude towards keeping mitzvos not about making yidishkeit fun.

The gemara differentiates between simcha and taanug. You have to serve Hashem with simcha. taanug is for yourself. It has nothing to do with avodas Hashem.

↑ Mommyg8 ↓

Wed, Aug 01 2018, 6:20 pm

amother wrote:

The sefer you just quoted says that he was talking about shmiras shabbos. But I have heard others quote this the way I just did (I don't know where this quote is from, you didn't put it in your post).

Since we already went off topic - isnt it interesting what he says about parnasah? Maybe you should translate it for some of the other threads...

"
אבל האמת אינו כן אלא כל מזונותיו של אדם "קצובין לו משנה לשנה ו

The facts are however, that arbitrary rules that random people made up is not called a chumrah. And even chumros are not meant for everyone, and should not be presented that way. Chumros should be optional.

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Wed, Aug 01 2018, 8:53 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Good post, but re the Rav Moshe quote: This wasn't people krechtzing over the type of stuff in the first paragraph, but over real challenges. Part of the challenge being, not to krechtz.

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Wed, Aug 01 2018, 8:55 pm

amother wrote:

Hey, jade, looks like we're on the same page. I'm not going to delete my pp, even though it's pretty much what you said. (Down to krechtz! Baruch shekivanti.)

I should say this under amother as I say this so often IRL. I say this about school. We can't expect school to be fun, but it should be a happy place.
Fun is nice. But life isn't about fun. It is about happiness.
Mind-melding again Wink

↑ PinkFridge

Wed, Aug 01 2018, 8:56 pm

amother wrote:

Is taanug "fun"?

hotzenplotz

Wed, Aug 01 2018, 9:26 pm

Is their really such a thing as a society without rules?
If there are no spoken rules, there are unspoken rules.
I was visiting different specialists over the last few months and felt like I came out of a shelter.
(I live in Brooklyn on a non- Jewish street.) Many of the doctors were female. They all had an unspoken uniform. Smooth, shiny legs. Three or four inches above the knee dresses. Tightly crossed legs, to keep their panties out of the line of vision.
Our frum girls would look the same way were it not for our school systems.

amother

Chocolate

Wed, Aug 01 2018, 10:07 pm

I desire to wear a tichel over a full head of hair, covering every strand.

I desire to wear long flowy skirts down to my ankles. covering my legs.

I desire to wear sandals, just like our sisters did in the heat of Israel.

But I can't because of my community. I won't leave my community for love of my Rebbe and love of my people, but I can still complain about being stifled, just to myself and on here, can't I?