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Forum
-> Relationships
-> Manners & Etiquette
amother
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 Sun, Oct 22 2017, 4:54 am
Explain it as soon as possible, just as you explained it here. If you know a couple who might want the position, you can put forward their names. As in any field, the key is to be as considerate as possible.
Good luck and beshaa tova.
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watergirl
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Sun, Oct 22 2017, 5:13 am
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I would ask daas torah who is not nogeah bdavar about this. You will be burning bridges for sure.
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amother
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Sun, Oct 22 2017, 6:07 am
Can you tell them a personal health situation has arisen for you which requires you to put your move on hold for the foreseeable future? That you will re-assess in 12 months?
In my world a pregnancy is a personal health situation, though I wouldn't necessarily reveal that much.
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DrMom
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Sun, Oct 22 2017, 6:21 am
| amother wrote: | Can you tell them a personal health situation has arisen for you which requires you to put your move on hold for the foreseeable future? That you will re-assess in 12 months?
In my world a pregnancy is a personal health situation, though I wouldn't necessarily reveal that much. |
Why make them think you have some serious health issue when in reality you are pregnant? Can't you just tell them what you told us? "Baruch Hashem and b'shaa tovah we are expecting and addition to our family. We are thrilled. Unfortunately, due to complications in our insurance coverage, we are unable to leave the country at this time, and thus we are unable to accept the position at XYZ Kollel. We wanted to tell you as soon as possible so you can find another qualified person to fill the position."
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doctorima
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Sun, Oct 22 2017, 6:44 am
Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable walking away and never taking the position after all that they did for you. I would tell them about the pregnancy and insurance situation and explain that it's not financially viable right now, but I would go as soon as possible after giving birth.
I would probably also discuss the situation with a Rav, especially if they were holding the spot for me and/or didn't take another applicant because of me. To have them work with you and give you 6 months after which you promised to come, I wouldn't just change my mind and burn my bridges.
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groovy1224
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Sun, Oct 22 2017, 6:50 am
| DrMom wrote: | | Why make them think you have some serious health issue when in reality you are pregnant? Can't you just tell them what you told us? "Baruch Hashem and b'shaa tovah we are expecting and addition to our family. We are thrilled. Unfortunately, due to complications in our insurance coverage, we are unable to leave the country at this time, and thus we are unable to accept the position at XYZ Kollel. We wanted to tell you as soon as possible so you can find another qualified person to fill the position." |
I agree with this, but I also think your title is misleading. You're not turning down an offer, you're backing out of a commitment. I'm not saying you're making the wrong choice, but most of the reasons you gave (we can't live on the stipend they're offering, we'd have to get our own insurance) are things that were in place when you accepted the offer, but it's just that now you have a better one. It's not like the terms changed. You did.
If you must back out, I'd say what Dr. Mom said. They will probably be upset, but you have to do what's best for your family. ( assuming you're not breaching a contract or doing anything halachically wrong. Can't advise on that)
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amother
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Sun, Oct 22 2017, 7:22 am
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If you do back out, please post the kollel info for all the people who are trying so hard to get into an oot kollel. We are going to start the proces in 2 years or so but I know many who can benefit from the info
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amother
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Sun, Oct 22 2017, 7:40 am
| groovy1224 wrote: | I agree with this, but I also think your title is misleading. You're not turning down an offer, you're backing out of a commitment. I'm not saying you're making the wrong choice, but most of the reasons you gave (we can't live on the stipend they're offering, we'd have to get our own insurance) are things that were in place when you accepted the offer, but it's just that now you have a better one. It's not like the terms changed. You did.
If you must back out, I'd say what Dr. Mom said. They will probably be upset, but you have to do what's best for your family. ( assuming you're not breaching a contract or doing anything halachically wrong. Can't advise on that) |
OP here: Yes, true. But the pregnancy really now is a game changer. If not for the pregnancy, I would have started looking for a job there in the new place and get insurance through it. Two incomes would have made life there possible, one does not work. Kollel pays no rent and no insurance and rent there is crazily high (around 1000 bucks for a very small apartment). And private insurance is super expensive, too. But cant go without as I am pregnant.
Now, nobody hires a pregnant woman (yeah, you dont have to tell them but it will soon be too obvious to hide) and I couldnt apply for jobs until well into the summer, after the 8 weeks maternity protection are over (im due after Pesach).
Now I work fulltime here and am entitled to a year of paid maternity leave id lose out on if I left the country.
So, really, the impossibility to move countries due to pregnancy is the major deciding factor. We waited for this pregnancy 3 years.
Hashem has a funny sense of humor. He held back on a steady job for my husband and a baby for us for almost 3 years and when we had decided to change place and destiny, he suddenly throws all the brachos on us.
Gamzu letova.
My husband is joking that apparently Hashem does not want him to become a rabbi...
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amother
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Sun, Oct 22 2017, 7:45 am
| amother wrote: | OP here: Yes, true. But the pregnancy really now is a game changer. If not for the pregnancy, I would have started looking for a job there in the new place and get insurance through it. Two incomes would have made life there possible, one does not work. Kollel pays no rent and no insurance and rent there is crazily high (around 1000 bucks for a very small apartment). And private insurance is super expensive, too. But cant go without as I am pregnant.
Now, nobody hires a pregnant woman (yeah, you dont have to tell them but it will soon be too obvious to hide) and I couldnt apply for jobs until well into the summer, after the 8 weeks maternity protection are over (im due after Pesach).
Now I work fulltime here and am entitled to a year of paid maternity leave id lose out on if I left the country.
So, really, the impossibility to move countries due to pregnancy is the major deciding factor. We waited for this pregnancy 3 years.
Hashem has a funny sense of humor. He held back on a steady job for my husband and a baby for us for almost 3 years and when we had decided to change place and destiny, he suddenly throws all the brachos on us.
Gamzu letova.
My husband is joking that apparently Hashem does not want him to become a rabbi... |
So what would you have done if you got pregnant while at the kollel? Is there universal healthcare in that country?
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amother
Violet
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Sun, Oct 22 2017, 7:57 am
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I would tell the kollel you are pregnant. Explain to them the situation. I think they deserve that courtesy and I don't think they will be unreasonable about. They might try to explain to you how it's manageable. You might end up agreeing or not. That is your choice but definitely have the conversation.
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amother
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Sun, Oct 22 2017, 7:58 am
There is universal healthcare but you need a job to get insurance through it. It is not free at all.
Normally I would have gotten pregnant after moving while I had a job there.
Otherwise you have to go private and we could not afford that.
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doctorima
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Sun, Oct 22 2017, 8:39 am
I'm sorry, but WADR, I really don't think you're being fair to the kollel. They held a spot for you, and now you've decided unilaterally not to take it, and won't even give them the courtesy of the truth because of your own superstitions?
You're 4 months pregnant and will be showing shortly, if you're not already. You're worried about a superstitious ayin hara, but not about breaking an agreement and commitment that you made? I definitely think you need to speak to a Rav about this.
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LittleDucky
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Sun, Oct 22 2017, 9:23 am
| doctorima wrote: | I'm sorry, but WADR, I really don't think you're being fair to the kollel. They held a spot for you, and now you've decided unilaterally not to take it, and won't even give them the courtesy of the truth because of your own superstitions?
You're 4 months pregnant and will be showing shortly, if you're not already. You're worried about a superstitious ayin hara, but not about breaking an agreement and commitment that you made? I definitely think you need to speak to a Rav about this. |
This. They held it for you and told people you are coming. It looks bad upon them that you backed out. You could be ruining their reputation for all you know!
Explain what happened and how you need health insurance. If they wabt you so much that they held the position you might be surprised at what else they might be able to do. Maybe they know someone who will hire you despite the pregnancy? Give them a chance!
You are being somewhat selfish as you now want your maternity leave even though you promised that you will come. I know its hard but you are out of your first trimester so please tell and let them allow you to cancel.
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oliveoil
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Sun, Oct 22 2017, 9:56 am
I am shocked by all these answers.
Of course you need to do what's best for you, your family, your unborn baby.
Yes, you may be inconveniencing, and you should do it as quickly, politely, and professionally as possible. But you are not doing some terrible thing. There is no reason to put your family in a significantly less good situation (long term) for someone else's gain.
Last edited by oliveoil on Sun, Oct 22 2017, 10:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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MagentaYenta
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Sun, Oct 22 2017, 10:00 am
| amother wrote: | Can you tell them a personal health situation has arisen for you which requires you to put your move on hold for the foreseeable future? That you will re-assess in 12 months?
In my world a pregnancy is a personal health situation, though I wouldn't necessarily reveal that much. |
What is wrong with being honest? 
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amother
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Sun, Oct 22 2017, 10:27 am
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Pregnancy is considered a health condition. At least when applying for public assistance where I live.
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MagentaYenta
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Sun, Oct 22 2017, 10:34 am
| amother wrote: | | I'm being honest, just not revealing the details. Some things are personal and private for me. |
Go for it then. Why even ask?
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