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cbsp ↓

Mon, Jul 11 2016, 5:42 pm

I thought this was interesting:

The Danger of the “Black Lives Matter” Movement
April 2016 • Volume 45, Number 4 • Heather Mac Donald

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu.....ment/

↑ BasMelech120 ↓

Mon, Jul 11 2016, 5:45 pm

PAMOM wrote:

BasMelech-- what violent protests are you speaking of? The BLM leader just arrested in Louisiana was arrested for NON-violent protest, exactly the sort of protest Dr. King advocated (I.e. , peacefully impeding traffic on a bridge or highway with full knowledge that arrest would follow). The murders in Dallas have been confirmed by every representative of BLM. There are extremists in every group--do you want me to point out Israeli equivalents of this murderer? And BLM IS about Afucan-Americans taking responsibility for themselves as a group.
Can you tell me where I might find proof of thousands from the Black community disagreeing with BLM? It would be very illuminating.
I'm curious given my own experience working in a largely African-Anerican population: who was in charge of your promotions? Your clients or the organization you work for? I'm sure you do good work or you would not have been promoted but I'm curious as to who you are answerable to. That is NOT to minimize the work you do, whatever it is. You just may not be the figure your clients are most likely to show their true feelings to.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=.....75595

https://www.google.com/url?sa=.....75595

https://www.google.com/url?sa=.....75595

https://www.google.com/url?sa=.....21545

https://www.google.com/url?sa=.....21545

https://www.google.com/url?sa=.....21545

These pictures are just a snippet.

And BLM - by their definition, is this: Black Lives Matter (BLM) is an activist movement, originating in the African-American community, that campaigns against violence toward black people.

If you look for proof of black people disagreeing with BLM, you will find it.

Finally, I will not disclose any of my personal work related information. If it's so hard for you to believe that black people could under no circumstances agree with me that victimizing them is harmful, then once again I will say that the problem is with you. Black people DO have brains. They can think for themselves. And when something makes sense, when they can see that the government and people like you want to keep them marginalized and victimized for political gains, they may very well turn to my side of the argument. And no, my promotions were not a 'fluke', and your assumptions of my work ethic are uncalled for.

↑ BasMelech120 ↓

Mon, Jul 11 2016, 5:53 pm

youngishbear wrote:

Basmelech, I am going to have to assume that IRL your approach is motivational and less condescending than it comes across here. I believe it is possible to motivate people to stop blaming circumstances and take control over whatever part of their own lives they can. That is a huge part of any therapist's job.

But that is still not the same as denying the validity of someone's experience. I really hope you don't do that. If you do, and your clients are shamed into making changes, that is a lot of internal damage right there even if they achieve external success.

You know what they say, when you assume...

And it's very sad that you cannot believe that black people, whom you obviously love to see victimized, can actually take a stance on their own! How very little do you think of this group??????????

↑ BasMelech120

Mon, Jul 11 2016, 6:02 pm

marina wrote:

1. I am unaware of BLM calling - as an organization, not crazy individuals - for the killings of police officers. Can you provide some citations?

2. If you are implying that 75% of Black pple are unable to point to institutional or system racism (which btw predates BLM for many decades), I call your bluff on that. Perhaps some your conversations were limited or you interpreted some responses incorrectly or some people were simply uninterested in sharing their viewpoints with you. Or perhaps you conflated the BLM question with the systemic racism question, as you appear to do in this thread.

In other words, systemic racism is not connected with BLM other than that the latter is trying to raise awareness of the former. Many Black pple can disagree with BLM and still agree on the existence of institutional racism.

So I guess I'm confused now about why you are conflating the two. Do you think that acknowledging institutional racism means agreement with all tenets of the BLM movement? And agreement with BLM means we agree to kill police officers?

Those are the jumps I see you making in the above post.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=black+liv.....+cops

And honestly, I don't think you are looking for answers to any of the above questions. You have brought examples and stories, but no actual law, policy, or institutional practice that constitutes racism. As I've said before, I hate racism just as much as you do. Point it out in real life and I will be the first one there to fight it with you.

I am obviously not going to change my mind on this matter, and by the length of our conversation thus far, I presume that neither will you. So let's agree to disagree. You believe that there is institutional racism in America today, that black people are marginalized by police officers/law enforcement, and that many of their issues today may date back to their ancestors years in slavery. I believe that there is no institutional racism in America today, or no right that white people have and black people do not. I believe that black persons have just as much of a brain as white persons, and can make decisions and choices - both of which will inevitably bring some sort of reaction. Those who make good choices will go far, and those who make poor choices will stay stagnant or move down in SES. I believe that the democrats efforts and victimizing those communities and keeping them dependent has a perpetual effect, more than that of an ancestors' enslavement. That pretty much sums it up.

I look forward to our future meetings within Imamother.

Peace sign

↑ WhatFor ↓

Mon, Jul 11 2016, 6:17 pm

sushilover wrote:

quotas are bad.
What does that have to do with BLM?

Read the article and watch the video of the police officers stating that they were instructed to go into minority neighborhoods and target black and latino men.

↑ WhatFor ↓

Mon, Jul 11 2016, 6:19 pm

And just cuz, I'm gonna put this picture right here:

↑ youngishbear ↓

Mon, Jul 11 2016, 6:34 pm

BasMelech120 wrote:

I don't love to see anyone victimized. I love to see people standing up and dealing with their situations.

But I hate to see people's sense of their own reality denied. Therefore, despite the fact that it contradicts what blacks in this country have said about their own experiences, I won't dismiss your experiences either.

The world is a colorful place. We should not write anyone's narrative for them.

↑ PAMOM

Mon, Jul 11 2016, 6:58 pm

What political gain could I possibly have by "keeping" anyone victimized, BasMelech? I don't really care about the details of your life; my point was that advancing in a career where you deal with minorities doesn't mean you know your clientale's true feelings. And how can you misconstrue what anyone here is saying to mean that we don't think black peoples have brains . I've also looked at several of the links you sent: an article about burning an Americsn flag, one that misrepresents a speech at Yale (go back and read the speech ) that makes good points about overthrowing one cultures hegemonic control over another.!

Multiple posters have shown you sociological and reasons why identically qualified candidates don't both get interviews if one is Rushawn and the other is Greg. If Latoya, a med student applies for an apartment , multiple studies show that james or Jacob or Alex or Peggy will get the appointment to see it by a significant percentage. I cared enough about what you're saying to read 3 articles and check the veracity by reading more first hand accounts. Why won't you read the articles we point to? The examples I gave are institutional racism.
What are you gaining by refusing to recognize that you can try your best to stsy in the game but you need a level playing ground.

↑ marina ↓

Mon, Jul 11 2016, 8:16 pm

BasMelech120 wrote:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=black+lives+matter+calling+for+the+killing+of+cops

And honestly, I don't think you are looking for answers to any of the above questions. You have brought examples and stories, but no actual law, policy, or institutional practice that constitutes racism. As I've said before, I hate racism just as much as you do. Point it out in real life and I will be the first one there to fight it with you.

I am obviously not going to change my mind on this matter, and by the length of our conversation thus far, I presume that neither will you. So let's agree to disagree. You believe that there is institutional racism in America today, that black people are marginalized by police officers/law enforcement, and that many of their issues today may date back to their ancestors years in slavery. I believe that there is no institutional racism in America today, or no right that white people have and black people do not. I believe that black persons have just as much of a brain as white persons, and can make decisions and choices - both of which will inevitably bring some sort of reaction. Those who make good choices will go far, and those who make poor choices will stay stagnant or move down in SES. I believe that the democrats efforts and victimizing those communities and keeping them dependent has a perpetual effect, more than that of an ancestors' enslavement. That pretty much sums it up.

I look forward to our future meetings within Imamother.

Peace sign

Thx for that insightful lmgtfy. This would be a good time to let you know that I put very very little stock into obviously biased media sources, including infowars, Breitbart, frontpagemag, dailymail etc. In fact, after spending what feels like YEARS of my life debunking their articles and videos, I generally refuse to read them. But I read the links you offered me and I watched the video and I wondered who is this BLM leader? I went to google him and then realized that the articles didn't even name him. How do you talk about BLM leaders without naming them?

It's actually super easy to look up BLM and their website and the people who founded the organization. It's also super easy to find a crazy person from any group and make him out to be the group's leader. How easy would it be for example, do you think, for me to find a frum Jew ranting about the violence that we should perpetrate upon Muslims and gays? How easy would it be for me to write an article about The Leaders of the Jewish Movement?

Quote:

You have brought examples and stories, but no actual law, policy, or institutional practice that constitutes racism.

Yes. There are very few explicit laws, policies, or practices that are blatantly racist.

That's because it's illegal, for example to have a law that says "Henceforth, people with ethnic names will only be hired if we have no other choice." Similarly, you will not find a policy handbook in any school district distinguishing between discipline outcomes for caucasians and others. That's illegal and if it existed openly like that, the federal government would pull that school district's funding and the parents would sue and win.

So instead, these patterns are unspoken and are uncovered, for example, by research and statistical comparisons. That's what systemic /institutional racism means- prejudice that happens even though it's not written down anywhere.

And before you go, plse know that there's plenty of systemic anti-semitism in America too- bigotry that is concealed but affects us nonetheless. Any frum woman who is worried about going to an interview in a tichel knows what I'm talking about, just like the frum man who wonders if he should tuck his tzitzis in.

↑ marina ↓

Mon, Jul 11 2016, 8:35 pm

BasMelech120 wrote:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=I&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjT4crY2ezNAhULGR4KHc27D1EQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thegatewaypundit.com%2F2016%2F02%2Fblack-lives-matter-burns-american-flag-at-apple-rally%2F&psig=AFQjCNHkSJUx4dAZruQM66Bu-00hzYY7QA&ust=1468370387875595

https://www.google.com/url?sa=.....75595

https://www.google.com/url?sa=.....75595

https://www.google.com/url?sa=.....21545

https://www.google.com/url?sa=.....21545

https://www.google.com/url?sa=.....21545

These pictures are just a snippet.

I'm going to start worrying about black people torching stuff to protest injustice right after I finish worrying about white people torching stuff to protest... nothing over nothing about nothing all the time.

Seriously, read up on it http://mountaineernewsservice......iots/

↑ gold21 ↓

Mon, Jul 11 2016, 10:12 pm

WhatFor wrote:

And just cuz, I'm gonna put this picture right here:

The most over-rated pic ever lol
Big deal. The woman stood calmly and looked the officers in the eye while being arrested. Yay. This confirms that the police officers are evil racist jerks, not just regular guys working their day jobs so they can get their weekly salary and pay their bills.... and that the woman was victimized for the color of her skin. Sure. Lol.

↑ gold21 ↓

Mon, Jul 11 2016, 10:33 pm

Im loving the Dallas police chief for his comments about how to resolve the bad feelings between the police department and the black community.

He suggests that those who feel that black ppl are targeted by law enforcement, come join the police department, and make an actual difference. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, if there are more black police officers, there will be less opportunity for people to assume racism against blacks when officers interact with black people. Honestly, its the perfect solution. Byebye Black Lives Matter, hello Black Police Department.

Thats common sense. Love it.
As we all know, the best solution is to create the solution yourself. Stop whining and do it.

↑ Chana Miriam S ↓

Mon, Jul 11 2016, 11:28 pm

fmt4 wrote:

Marina, what I think she is saying in reference to #2, is that you can't compare racism to anti semitism, because we know that when bad things happen to Jews, it's simply because of esaiv hating yakov for no reason, whereas the bad things that happen to black people are their own fault. Rolling Eyes

I think I just threw up a little in my mouth

moonstone

Mon, Jul 11 2016, 11:31 pm

gold21 wrote:

Thank you, Gold21. This picture proves nothing.

↑ Chana Miriam S ↓

Mon, Jul 11 2016, 11:34 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

I don't see anything wrong with saying "in the black community ". It doesn't mean that everyone in the black community is the same or guilty of other peoples actions. If I would tell you that a particular community has a very high crime rate. Would anyone feel comfortable in that area at night? Of course not. Does it mean that every single person there is a criminal? Again, Of course. Probably the overwhelming majority are law abiding citizens. However the community as a whole is dangerous. I think when I or others use the word community, we are using it in that context.

What on earth IS the black community? People don't make a community just because their skin matches.

↑ shoshanim999 ↓

Tue, Jul 12 2016, 3:54 am

andrea levy wrote:

What on earth IS the black community? People don't make a community just because their skin matches.

Really? Seems like you're nitpicking.... If I say the chasisdish community in Williamsberg, or the Amish community in Pennsylvania, you would have no idea what I'm talking about? If I say the Black community in Ferguson Missouri you don't know what I'm saying?

↑ gold21 ↓

Tue, Jul 12 2016, 7:01 am

andrea levy wrote:

What on earth IS the black community? People don't make a community just because their skin matches.

By the way, Miss Alabama (who is black) stated that her immediate reaction to the cop shooting was that she does not feel bad for the cops that died, because of the way "they" have treated black people. Who is "they"? Are all cops one community and responsible for one another because they share a uniform color?

Miss Alabama, you disgust me.
I hope youre stripped of your title.

↑ marina ↓

Tue, Jul 12 2016, 7:14 am

gold21 wrote:

You'll be pleased to know, I guess, that more minorities in the police force is a key goal of the BLM movement. You'll agree then that some of their ideas are just common sense.

↑ marina ↓

Tue, Jul 12 2016, 7:19 am

gold21 wrote:

Miss Alabama from 15 years ago made some appalling comments that she later said knew were wrong. Pageant disavowed immediately.
http://www.al.com/news/birming......html

↑ gold21 ↓

Tue, Jul 12 2016, 7:22 am

marina wrote:

You'll be pleased to know, I guess, that more minorities in the police force is a key goal of the BLM movement. You'll agree then that some of their ideas are just common sense.

Yes. I am pleased to hear that.

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