Mom beats son for participating in Baltimore riots

↑ 33055 ↓

Wed, Apr 29 2015, 11:08 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Wow Squishy, ur making some pretty weak excuses. So do you think that if police brutality continues the black community will get used to it as they are used to all their other problems and stop protesting? Thats a pathetic excuse, They r used to certain problems so they don't protest them anymore. You can't be serious!

They are angry about other problems. Cops murdering black men is igniting the anger. Only a fool can't see this is unacceptable.

The community is not accepting the abuse anymore. The larger society will be giving in to the social unrest not just because of injustice but because it is bad for business.

↑ FranticFrummie ↓

Wed, Apr 29 2015, 11:11 pm

mazal555 wrote:

It's not. I suggest you read a few issues of Essence or Crisis. I think you might find it instructive.

It's just the only issue whose demands are being reported in the white media. Because it sells stories.

Here's another good source http://www.theroot.com I don't always agree with all the articles, but I find the different points of view very interesting. I often find the comments the most enlightening, as you get a really broad spectrum of viewpoints.

↑ MagentaYenta ↓

Wed, Apr 29 2015, 11:17 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

I have heard this malarkey my whole life
I very surprised to see it spouted on a "frum" forum

Can I respectfully ask how thousands of Jews like my grandfather ran away from the czars army stowed away on a ship , lived on scraps from the garbage and came to America at 12
He went on to be one if the most producrive members of soceity without knowing English
How many Jews went from aushwitz and the dp camps
Not only did they stay sane , I don't know how, they became the wealthiest entrepreneurs and most successful builders of our economy

The AA community doesn't need sob stories
They need to start taking some responsibility for their actions

My father wasn't dragged here by slavers as a child. He retained a semblance of his family name, he and my ancestors weren't slaves to be bought and sold. He was not denied the right to vote due to his skin pigmentation, nor did he live under Jim Crow. His right to join a labor union, or choose a place to live was never denied due to his skin color. His ability to advance in his chosen trade wasn't limited by his skin color. Just a few of the differences that separate those that came here voluntarily, and those whose ancestors weren't given a choice.

↑ Rubber Ducky ↓

Wed, Apr 29 2015, 11:42 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

And my ancestors were slaves to Pharaoh in Mitzrayim. Thank G-d we got over it.

I live in Baltimore City, currently under curfew. And I've had a few interesting conversations with ~~blacks~~ people of color over the past few days, like the following exchange with a black woman cashier at the market:

Me: What's happening is just so sad.
Cashier: It's not sad, it's DISGUSTING! And my tax money is going to have to pay for it [ie., the damage caused by the riot].

↑ MagentaYenta ↓

Wed, Apr 29 2015, 11:53 pm

Rubber Ducky wrote:

That is a pretty mild reaction compared to what is being reported in news outlets. The community is very upset. Losing businesses in the community is devastating to the whole. Some of the local businesses will not come back, folks are hoping that CVS rebuilds since it carried some minor grocery items and the elders and the disabled locally depended on them. It's not just the goods and services that support the community but the local jobs that were provided as well.

↑ ora_43 ↓

Thu, Apr 30 2015, 2:58 am

shoshanim999 wrote:

I lump "the black community" together because of the absurdness of their collective actions.

The people protesting are what, 0.001% of black people in America? Deciding that they represent "the black community" is like deciding that some drugged-out kid on a hilltop throwing rocks at Palestinian cars represents "the Jewish community."

Quote:

We all know that if tomorrow a black drug dealer shoots and kills 10 black people there will be no protests at all. If they burn down their school and there's no school for a year, again, nobody would care.

Drug dealers murder people who protest against them. It would be a very sad statement on American democracy if people feared speaking out about the police as much as they fear speaking out against drug dealers.

Also, protests are a lot less effective at dealing with deliberate crime than at dealing with institutional/systematic issues.

↑ imasoftov ↓

Thu, Apr 30 2015, 4:07 am

So about the original mother who beat her son, Why is America celebrating the beating of a black child?

Here are some quotes from the article but I think it's worth reading the whole thing

"In this country, when black mothers fulfill stereotypes of mammies, angry and thwarting resistance to a system designed to kill their children, they get praised."

"This distracting conversation turns the spotlight back to black youth. If only Freddie hadn’t run; if only his parents had beaten him; if only he was perfect, maybe he would still be with us. And the praise of Graham reflects a belief shared across race lines that beating black children is the only way to keep them safe from the dangers of a racist society, or from stepping out of line. Rather than embracing her son Michael, rather than hearing and seeing his pain and assuring him that she’s got his back, Graham beat and shamed him in front of the world."

↑ shoshanim999 ↓

Thu, Apr 30 2015, 7:09 am

ora_43, u say that its only .0001% of their community. I'm not giving the black community who lives in another city credit for not rioting over what happened with Freddie Gray. I certainly don't know the % of people in Baltimore rioting but its not .0001%. When the Michael Brown incident happened the blacks in his community rioted. And did u really say that people aren't protesting drug dealers because they are afraid? Again, if your r looking for excuses, you'll find one. Are they also afraid to protest their low graduation rate, or the fact that over 50% of babies r born to single mothers. I have know doubt u can think of an excuse why these issues arent worth coming together for and protesting about. Lets hear why.

↑ 33055 ↓

Thu, Apr 30 2015, 7:14 am

imasoftov wrote:

"This distracting conversation turns the spotlight back to black youth. If only Freddie hadn’t run; if only his parents had beaten him; if only he was perfect, maybe he would still be with us. And the praise of Graham reflects a belief shared across race lines that beating black children is the only way to keep them safe from the dangers of a racist society, or from stepping out of line. Rather than embracing her son Michael, rather than hearing and seeing his pain and assuring him that she’s got his back, Graham beat and shamed him in front of the world."

I started working in the inner city in my 30s. One of the things that shocked my senses was watching the black moms sitting on the porch steps watching their children play and they would bring a belt. They would threaten to beat their children if they didn't behave. They actually sat there with their belts. I can't tell you how widespread that behavior is.

Just to be fair, we can contrast it to the frum community with their neglect of their children. Young children are left unattended all the time. Last week I had to speak to a mom because her 2 year old ran in front of my car and she was inside not even by a window. This mom regularly goes away and leaves her very young children on a monitor and an open cell phone.

I don't know which is worse. Just saying.

↑ 33055 ↓

Thu, Apr 30 2015, 7:20 am

shoshanim999 wrote:

Why doesn't the frum community protest the widespread tax, government and business fraud endemic in our community? There is a universal acceptance of the lawlessness of the overwhelming majority. Both communities are dependent on government entitlements. Both have cash economies. Officially KJ is poorer than Newburgh, yet the residents of KJ don't fear being killed by cops when they are arrested. Instead they are coddled and given special considerations.

↑ shoshanim999 ↓

Thu, Apr 30 2015, 7:41 am

The reason the KJ don't fear getting killed by the cops might have something to do with the fact that the cops have no fear of any violence during an arrest of someone from KJ. Its completely not comparable. The reason why the community at large doesn't protest all the financial shinanigans that goes on is bec. it doesn't impact the community as a whole the way violent crimes do. If ur neighbor was playing games and getting food stamps that she really didn't deserve I highly doubt u would turn her in. On the other hand if ur neighbor was distributing cocaine u probably would turn her in.

↑ 33055 ↓

Thu, Apr 30 2015, 8:04 am

shoshanim999 wrote:

The widespread fraud contaminates the entire community. I don't like sleaze whether they wear their trousers so their underwear shows or they wear yamukahs. Why do Jews get a pass? Why are the perverts allowed to exist in peace in our communities? I rather live next door to someone dealing cocaine then a child molester disguised as a rabbi. The same cycles of poverty and dependency started by Johnson's Great Society effect the hemishe community that effect the inner city ghettos. It is a defective mindset that even our criminals are good criminals.

Did you see the statistics that one person dies by cop every 8 hours? 40% of the deaths by cop of black people is when the subject is not resistant. BTW 46% of the deaths by cop by white people is for non resistant suspects. Doesn't these numbers shock you and show you that police reform is necessary?

I promise you that if you ever met me, I look no different than every other frum woman in my community. IRL I am soft spoken, yet I had broken bones attributed to the behavior of cops. I could be your sister, mother or daughter. There needs to be reform so that justice is administered uniformly and safely.

sky ↓

Thu, Apr 30 2015, 8:12 am

MagentaYenta wrote:

My grandmother has a number on her arm. At the age of 18 she had been a slave. Carried wood on her back as an example for polish prisoners while being chased by dogs, at gun point. She was starved. Her mother and father and most of her siblings were killed in one night. She lost her home, community, and all belongings. She came to America with $5 in her pocket because there was no were else to go. The money was stolen on the ship. She lived in the attic of a shul and ate the scraps from the garbage can.
My grandmother didn't work on shabbos. but lived in a community where you had to. She lost her job each and every week and didn't always get reemployed the following week. Sometimes they would lock her in the work building on Friday by sundown and she would have to walk home Friday night alone for miles. She and her family often went hungry.
This was a lot more recent then American slavery.

↑ 33055 ↓

Thu, Apr 30 2015, 8:30 am

sky wrote:

The difference was she came into a society that was established and she had upwardly mobile examples. When she came here, she wasn't subjected to Jim Crow laws. Her children could receive the same public school education as other white kids. She could receive a white person's pay. She came into an upwardly mobile existing society that prized education and was dedicated to helping the surviors. She was entitled to war reparations. She wasn't branded because if her skin color.

↑ 33055 ↓

Thu, Apr 30 2015, 8:42 am

ora_43 wrote:

I would add that drug dealers don't have to please a constituency.

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Thu, Apr 30 2015, 9:09 am

I really hear the comments about a week with no answers, and the after effects of slavery (a century and a half since the Emancipation Proclamation, much of that still involving serious discrimination and worse isn't so long).
But why erupt in violence, among the very community that is suffering the most, and for whom you've been peacefully demonstrating the whole week??? Why can't there be a different reaction? What should it be?

↑ sky

Thu, Apr 30 2015, 9:09 am

Squishy wrote:

She didn't have any support at the time and didn't speak the language.

Sometimes help is not a good things. In some ways welfare and other hand outs have set people back further then having to fight to make it on your own. (In our own community as well)

↑ ora_43 ↓

Thu, Apr 30 2015, 9:16 am

shoshanim999 wrote:

ora_43, u say that its only .0001% of their community. I'm not giving the black community who lives in another city credit for not rioting over what happened with Freddie Gray.

But you'll give them blame for it. Confused

Quote:

And did u really say that people aren't protesting drug dealers because they are afraid? Again, if your r looking for excuses, you'll find one. Are they also afraid to protest their low graduation rate, or the fact that over 50% of babies r born to single mothers. I have know doubt u can think of an excuse why these issues arent worth coming together for and protesting about. Lets hear why.

Yes, I did just say that. Do a quick search on Google. I just did, and I found headlines about cases from just 2-3 weeks ago of people murdered in America because drug dealers were afraid they'd go to police.

But I think you're also completely missing the point of a protest. A protest can only work if you can somehow bring pressure to bear on someone with authority. Like a mayor who needs your vote to stay in office, as Squishy said, or a company that needs to maintain a decent reputation in order to keep sales up, or a boss who stands to lose money if his workers strike... etc.

Who exactly would be the target audience for a protest against single motherhood? What person in authority is there who can force couples to stay together?

Who would be the target audience for a protest against drug dealing or murder? I assume drug dealers and murderers. What pressure can you put on people who are already risking death or life in prison for their actions?

I'm not saying that a rally against violence would be a bad idea. But I think it's not reasonable to expect that come first. Rallies to "show solidarity" or express disapproval or whatever else tend to come way after protests to demand change, in any community.

↑ ora_43 ↓

Thu, Apr 30 2015, 9:22 am

sky wrote:

It's still not comparable. I agree with everything Squishy said. Dh and I have grandparents and greatgrandparents who had to rebuild from nothing, too - yes, it's very very impressive and I'm so amazed by what they did, but I can't ignore the fact that they have advantages that people in poor black communities certainly didn't have then and in many cases don't have even today.

If the issue were welfare, I'd expect everyone to be equally held back. But it seems that there's a lot of overlap between communities that are "held back by welfare" and communities that face significant (subconscious) prejudice.