How to safely keep food hot over Shabbos?

Dolly Welsh ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 10:36 am

A stove without a purpose-designed "Shabbos setting" should not be left on any more time than to use it for cooking. We roast meat for four hours, fine. But not 24 hours.

After roasting, I would leave a half hour rest for the oven, before cooking again.

Don't use anything in a way its designer did not intend it to be used.

A hot oven that has been turned off will keep food warm. Turn it off.

Timers are good.

Smoke alarms are good. Carbon Monoxide alarms are good. A slightly opened window may be good too.

A hot water urn is meant to be left on a long time, so that's fine, but it should have plenty of extra water in it.

A warming tray is meant to be left on a long time, but it should be on a stone or glass or metal surface, with no curtains or paper napkins or any other thing at all, near it.

Candles should be well isolated from everything, put on a heat proof surface or tray, and watched until they burn out.

Extension cords should only be the thick grey heavy-duty kind.

Maybe there is a need for a gemach for these appliances, so people do not use worn-out ones. Also smoke and carbon monoxide alarms.

The three day yom tovs need extra caution.

Smoke alarms are very, very good. But they don't solve everything. The main point is to have no fire in the first place.

mille

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 10:38 am

Like others have said, I don't think we can look at one freak accident and try to plan our lives around it. Hot plates aren't inherently unsafe. I would say that a blech with a gas burner is a lot less safe, because it's an actual flame and the CO risk, of course. All different electrical appliances have a small chance of malfunctioning, and some are used improperly which causes them to malfunction. As long as you are using the hot plate properly, you should be fine. Your extra safeguard should be working smoke detectors and fire extinguishers, and timers on the appliances, not an entirely different method. No method is without flaws.

↑ Sanguine ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 10:44 am

happy_tobeme wrote:

A hot plate should never be left on unattended. It's in the instruction manual. Which means you are not supposed to leave it on all Shabbos.

What are you talking about? Is it only in Israel that they're sold for Shabbat?

Barbara ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 10:51 am

Sanguine wrote:

What are you talking about? Is it only in Israel that they're sold for Shabbat?

People leave them on timers. So they go on at, say, 9 am, and go off at 2 pm.

(I don't actually use one, so I'm basing this on the comments of others.)

We have a warming drawer. Unfortunately, we can't use it for Pesach.

↑ Dolly Welsh ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 10:51 am

There may be different kinds of hot plates. Whatever it says in the manual should be followed. The manual describes what is a safe use for that particular model. Maybe the ones in Israel are designed for long use.

You should only use an appliance for what it was designed to do.

Fires have been caused by dorm girls trying to dry wet clothes with a hair dryer. But it's not meant for that. Or, stand there and hold the hair dryer. Then you will see what's going on. But don't prop up the hair dryer, and walk away.

sourstix ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 11:05 am

thank you sanguine, such logical words at a time of hysteria. it so happens dh is also logical like this. and I was annoyed when he responded this way. but the logic tells me hes right. thanks again. it just reinforces what he said. the pain is indescribable. and I dont even know them. just as a mother and a jewish heart makes me cringe. hashem berov rachmav has more rachmanus then me. we cant have answers there are none. but lets try to think a little logically. and perhaps hug our kids and do something to show hashem we appreciate his chasodim. not preaching at all. just my thougts. if I am out of line just ignore.

↑ sourstix

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 11:09 am

[quote="etky"][/b]

Yes- it's not the urn that is inherently unsafe (the ones sold here, that meet the Israel Standards Institute regulations cut out automatically if they run dry) but rather people's inattention to safety rules.
Also with plattot and blechs - the practice of covering the food often carelessly and with inappropriate, flammable fabrics is far more dangerous than the heating medium itself.[/quote]

[b]just to add to this cause dh is an electrician. when it comes to succos so many pp use extension wires that are not ment to take so much electricity and they need to use the proper wiring and dh says that pp just do what they feel like having no idea what danger they are doing. and putting themselves in harms way. so please before you deal with electricity give an electricain a call down pay whatever it takes and wiring all your lighting in you succah properly!

↑ water_bear88 ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 11:28 am

I think it was said on one of the threads, but extension cords should have their maximum amperage printed on them at one of the ends. If you must use one, check it against whatever appliance you plan to run on it- whatever you're running on it needs to use less amperes than the cord.

A separate issue that I didn't see brought up at all (though maybe I missed it)- voltage. PLEASE don't run American appliances, which are usually 110 or 120, in a country that uses 220 (Israel and I believe Europe) without a proper transformer (which is not the same as a plug adaptor) unless the electrical manual specifically says it can run at either. The only appliances I've seen that can run at either are laptops, travel irons and some electric shavers, though you may need to flip a physical switch. Likewise, don't try to run a 220V appliance in the States. Feeding the appliance half of the power it's supposed to get makes it work twice as hard, which can short out electrical wiring.

↑ Dolly Welsh ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 12:57 pm

Ah. That's interesting.

If you own an extension cord at all, it simply should be the heavy duty kind, the most heavy duty kind.

Do not own any other kind.

They are thick and grey. Ask the store for the most heavy duty kind. If they are stronger than needed, that is fine.

Nobody with sense would put anything but metal on the food. Tin foil or an inverted pot. Cloth? Paper? Even plastic wrap? No. Just metal. Not even tempered thick glass. Metal.

MagentaYenta ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 1:01 pm

happy_tobeme wrote:

A hot plate should never be left on unattended. It's in the instruction manual. Which means you are not supposed to leave it on all Shabbos.

And always check the manual to see if it can be used on timer. If the manual doesn't mention it, call the manufacturer.

↑ MagentaYenta ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 1:04 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

Ah. That's interesting.

If you own an extension cord at all, it simply should be the heavy duty kind, the most heavy duty kind.
...

Extension cords are based on the rating and not the outer coating. A 'gray' 20 amp cord plugged into a 15 amp socket isn't wise or safe when using it with an appliance that draws 20 amps.

↑ water_bear88 ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 1:08 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

Extension cords are based on the rating and not the outer coating. A 'gray' 20 amp cord plugged into a 15 amp socket isn't wise or safe when using it with an appliance that draws 20 amps.

Exactly. The Israeli ones are just as likely to be white- you need to check the number.

↑ Anion7

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 1:28 pm

I've been keeping my hot plate on top of the stove ever since I got married. I don't keep any burners on or the oven and I do this just to save counter space. There are two pilot lights under the stove and that area is always warm even when the stove and oven are off. Think it is dangerous that I keep the hot plate directly on the stove top?

↑ MagentaYenta ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 1:29 pm

water_bear88 wrote:

Exactly. The Israeli ones are just as likely to be white- you need to check the number.

And folks need to check to see if a small kitchen appliance can even be used with an extension cord. Just because it can be plugged into an extension cord doesn't mean it's the best practice.

↑ MagentaYenta ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 1:36 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

... Carbon Monoxide alarms are good. A slightly opened window may be good too.
...

Please be careful about what you advise, co2 is heavier than oxygen that's why the detectors are placed lower. Open windows can cause air circulation but it's not going to change the fact that co2 is heavier than O. It can give folks false confidence while there is a co2 build up.

m in Israel ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 1:53 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

First of all, the dangerous gas that is being discussed is CO -- Carbon MONOxide, not co2, carbon DIoxide.

Second of all, CO is actually slightly lighter than air - and proper ventilation definitely DOES help prevent a build up of CO. CO is produced by the burning of fuel like oil and gas. Gas or oil boilers release CO, for example. If the only source of CO in your home is a flame on the stove, then an open window actually should be more than enough to vent it properly. It is generally larger appliances that can cause danger if improperly vented (or if the vents get blocked).

http://healthybuildingscience......acts/