How to safely keep food hot over Shabbos?

Ella1

Sun, Mar 22 2015, 11:44 pm

My friend had carbon monoxide in her house from using a blech. The man from the gas company that responded to her 911 call on Shabbos told her that he sees this often in the community. B"H, she had a carbon monoxide detector! Now, the recent tragedy in Midwood shows us a hotplate is also not an answer. So, does anyone have a good, safe way they keep things hot over Shabbos?

Geulanow

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 12:47 am

Someone once told me that in the summer his family would keep water hot somehow in a thermos-like container.
Any suggestions about 2 day yomtov- especially since the first day this year is Shabbos. Is it safe to leave the stove, oven, crockpot, hot water urn urn on?

Sanguine ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 5:07 am

I would like to say something - The fire this week was such a shocking unbelievable tragedy but people are overreacting to their own safety. I do believe that a working smoke alarm in the kitchen would have ended things differently. Or maybe they've been meaning to replace that plata for some time. We must learn from their tragedy but it shouldn't be crippling people from living life. It was shocking cause we never heard of such a large loss by people doing just what you were doing too. People think It could have been my plata. How many platas are used every Shabbat year after year with no problems?

It is still safe to heat food on Shabbat as you always have. This tragedy should be a wake up call to check your smoke alarms and plata wiring but it shouldn't cripple people. Tragedies happen every day, yet we still fly in planes, ride in cars, cross the street, take a bath, eat popcorn... It's normal to be a little more cautious after hearing about such a large loss. But it's not normal to think that you can never heat food on Shabbat again.

Be smart and be safe. Wear seat belts, cross the street at the corner, cut your food into smaller pieces and check your smoke alarms. But don't stop living.

etky ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 5:16 am

Sanguine wrote:

This. Totally. The entire post and especially the bolded.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 5:17 am

Geulanow wrote:

the thermos like container is probably an urn. Thats what my mother did growing up. She would put the food onto a plate ontop of the urn.

Also another way to still use a plata is to use it on a timer. We keep ours on for three hours at night and the morning. Thats all. Nothing is left on overnight. Ever.

Raisin

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 5:24 am

yes, you can leave your plata on a timer. Cholent can be left in a crockpot, which are designed to be left on for many hours.

never leave shabbos candles alone.

urns are often a safety hazard when small children tip them over and burn themselves...but that can just as easily happen with regular kettles or pots of boiling water.

In any case make sure your smoke alarms are working and maybe get louder ones. Fires can be caused by many, many things.

↑ etky ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 5:29 am

Raisin wrote:

yes, you can leave your plata on a timer. Cholent can be left in a crockpot, which are designed to be left on for many hours.

never leave shabbos candles alone.

urns are often a safety hazard when small children tip them over and burn themselves...but that can just as easily happen with regular kettles or pots of boiling water.

[b]In any case make sure your smoke alarms are working and maybe get louder ones. Fires can be caused by many, many things.

[/b]

Yes- it's not the urn that is inherently unsafe (the ones sold here, that meet the Israel Standards Institute regulations cut out automatically if they run dry) but rather people's inattention to safety rules.
Also with plattot and blechs - the practice of covering the food often carelessly and with inappropriate, flammable fabrics is far more dangerous than the heating medium itself.

c.c.cookie

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 5:48 am

If we live this way - responding to every tragedy by making sure WE don't use XYZ etc., it can be really paralyzing! There are halachic guidelines to what is considered a sakana - to avoid this exact tendency! I grew up in Israel. What would happen if I decided not to take buses? Or the train? Or wait at crowded bus stops? Lo aleinu that doesn't even help! What about going to shul? Or the Fogels HY"D, who were killed in their own home???
My point is, you do the best you can according to the NORM. But paranoia is not the answer. We have to believe, at some point, that SOMETIMES it was just decided from above...

water_bear88 ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 6:44 am

etky wrote:

I think what Raisin was talking about with the urns is the burn risk from the boiling water, not the fire risk from the electrical components. Hot-water urns need to be used very carefully around small children, preferably out of their reach.

↑ etky ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 6:51 am

water_bear88 wrote:

Yes - I understood that. I just wanted, in the same post, to pre-empt any further arguments about the urns being a fire risk in and of themeselves, and pointed out that they do have a built in safety feature. As with platot, it's more often the unsafe way that people position or use/misuse these appliances that make them dangerous - not the appliances themselves. Human carelessness is something that can be combatted and prevented- freak malfunctions of any type of generally safe electrical appliance, not so much....

↑ water_bear88 ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 7:11 am

etky wrote:

I figured you understood. I wanted to make sure no one else missed that. There are way more burn injuries every year than there are deaths from fires, but they also don't get as much public attention since (b"H) they don't as often result in death. Pushing urns, platot, and candles to the front of the counter so they're not under cabinets causes new problems that shouldn't be ignored.

momX4

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 8:49 am

I leave a fire on for yom tov, but I leave a window open a bit. This should prevent a carbon monoxide buildup.

Every shabbos I use a crockpot for the cholent. On pesach I will have a timer make it go off. I warm up the food for every friday night and keep it warm in a hot oven that was shut off before shabbos.

I never had the need for a hot plate.

myself

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 8:58 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Don't you ever cook on y't?

Lilibet ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 1:12 pm

Among real dangers that people may be unaware of (not the cause this past Shabbos) is the problem with leaving an over on or a stove top burner with a blech where the over or stove is set against a wall not built to proper standards. This will rarely happen in a well-built, newer, upscale home. But in rentals, particularly less expensive rentals, and homes that have been repeatedly renovated contractors will sometimes build a kitchen where the oven or stove-top back up to a wall that has not been properly constructed of fireproof material. In these situations the heat that builds up in the wall behind the stove or oven over 24 (or 48) hours (again particularly inexpensive appliances hat are not as well insulated as expensive ones) can lead spontaneous combustion within the wall.

The solution, for those who rent less expensive apartments that come with landlord-supplied ovens and stoves, is to use a modern , plug-in urn and hotplate/warming tray. Not ot leave a blech on over shabbat if you have any suspicion that the building may have been lightly built or cheaply renovated. These appliances meet government safety standards and are safe even over long periods of time. Provided that the wires are not frayed and the electrical outlets are up to code.

Simple1 ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 1:16 pm

For Friday night food, I know some people who heat the oven very high. They heat up the food and then turn off the oven before shabbos. I don't know the details, but if done right, the food should stay warm till the meal.

↑ Lilibet

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 1:19 pm

Ella1 wrote:

She probably lives in a pretty nice, modern or recently-renovated house. Such houses have tight windows. Live with old windows or in cheap housing and you avoid this problem. Tight windows & doors keep your AC and heating bills down, but they create a real problem.

The simple solution is to leave a window in or near the kitchen cracked very slightly open if you want to leave the gas on over (stove or oven) over Shabbos or yom tov.

↑ Rubber Ducky ↓

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 1:26 pm

Simple1 wrote:

I do this. It works. I roast chicken at 500 degrees (Fahrenheit) and time it to be cooked enough to eat just before Shabbos comes in. Putting a hot pot of soup in the oven a few minutes before I turn it off also helps keep all the food hot.

↑ Simple1

Mon, Mar 23 2015, 1:31 pm

Rubber Ducky wrote:

I would love to try it if I can plan it right.