Ferguson murder began by victim walking in gutter? Wo!

↑ vintagebknyc

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 8:05 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

This debate is ridiculous. The reason why people don't respect the black community as a whole is because as a group they are involved in more criminal activity, they are less educated, have more babies out of wedlock than any other ethnic or religious group. As I said be4, 70% of black babies r born to single teenage mothers. 1 out of every 6 black adults above age 40 has been incarcerated. While blacks make up around 12% of the population, they count for 40% of the prison population. In anyone suggesting that as a whole orthodox jews behave this way??? Also, I'm having a hard time believing that blacks care about their own when there is an epidemic of violence and murder going on in their communities without a single word from their leaders. No, they don't care.

would you tell this lovely story to any of the MANY black members of imamother? does it concern you that any of them will see it? (because it breaks my heart that they will.)

↑ marina ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 8:06 pm

This is for those of you who don't care about racial profiling b/c it has nothing to do with Jews:

http://www.thejewishweek.com/e.....ling:

Quote:

Just like now, it was Purim. 2008. A young Jewish man was coming home from a Purim party in New Jersey. As designated driver, he hadn’t been drinking.

And then he was pulled over by a police officer and asked to take off his glasses and recite the alphabet from C to T. He was told to “walk the line;” was accused of conspiring to commit an act of terrorism and was surrounded by 10 uniformed officers with guns drawn. He was wearing a kippah. He felt so threatened by his situation, he started saying the She’ma under his breath.

I may be the first person to write about this particular incident. Actually, I know I am. Why? Because I am that man. And that incident wasn’t the first of its kind; they’ve been happening to me since I was 15.

Every week there is a moment, or more, when I become an object of suspicion by the police or “concerned” citizens. This is especially acute when I drive, shop or generally go outside with my wife, who “looks” somewhat Caucasian. So I always have a moment of cognitive dissonance when I read blogs and articles by my fellow Jews who make racism and anti-racism work seem like more of a mental exercise, which it is for them, than a reality, which it is for me.

Many Jews who identify as white have trouble believing me. They quickly assert that such occurrences are rare or even nonexistent, especially when I say that they happen in the Jewish community. Either I must be oversensitive, they imply, or these are anomalies that only I have experienced.

I was glad to read a recent, well-written blog post (Kol HaKavod, by the way!) from Jews For Racial and Economic Justice’s director that addressed incidents like these. Titled “When Jewish Silence Betrays Our Heritage,” the writer connected these abuses to Jewish history.

It was a call to action against Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, which gives people the right to use deadly force to defend themselves if he or she “reasonably” thinks it’s necessary to prevent their own death or great bodily harm. The piece urges the reader to rise up against the injustices put upon others in the name of our Jewish identity. It’s a familiar theme in Jewish writing on social justice.

And it’s good as far as it goes. But that isn’t far enough. It isn’t deep enough. And it betrays a total ignorance of the racism that actually impacts actual Jews who have African American and/or Latino heritage.

Many good social justice commentaries like this one leave out the very real, personal and current connection that members of the Jewish community have with these issues. These things happen to us – not them. But the absence of this awareness feeds an “Us and Them” trope that many in the Jewish community unknowingly perpetuate. It creates a division between these people and the causes they champion. If you are looking to make a clear connection between those who are on the receiving end of racial injustice in America and the Jewish community’s experience, you don’t have to look that far in time or space.

I’m here to say that they are us! There are Jews in the United States who can’t walk down the street without being profiled as just another criminal who hasn’t been locked up. There are Jews out there who fear for their lives when confronted with what some accept as everyday situations. We are real people, and not just a heady notion for you to wrestle with. Yes, we must end Stand Your Ground. By doing so, you are not only advocating for other communities, you’re fighting for the lives of Am Yisrael, including my own.

It is time that we wake up to the fact that we are not removed from racism and murderous violence. It is time that we realize that the same bigotry and prejudice that we fight outside of our community, and that is such a big part of our history, still resides within it.

Even those who work towards the righteous goals of tzedakah (justice), emet (truth) and amiyoot (peoplehood) aren’t exempt from working on their own personal prejudices, because we all have the capacity to perpetuate the fear and ignorance we see in others. We must commit ourselves to the betterment of our own communities. And that means committing to a long-term process that digs deep and forges structural change.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 8:08 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

I think that their leaders do address those issues. Every black neighborhood has a church on every corner and the leaderships there do everything possible to address those issues. Pres Obama has addressed those issues. Numerous civic groups have tried to address gang violence. Ben Carson addresses those issues. The black community has suffered the most from the outsourcing of manufacturing jobs to China. Jobs would rebuild the black community.

↑ mommy3b2c ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 8:25 pm

marina wrote:

Do you understand that whites who don't comply with police officers' directions are not as likely to end up dead as blacks who don't comply?

Possibly true. And that's why if he was merely non complying, his death would have been a murder. But that was not the case. And whites who assault police officers and try to take their guns will end up with the same fate. Moral of the story. Obey the law and definitely don't attack law enforcement because you WILL get shot, and the cop will not be prosecuted because every one in this great country has a right to self defense.

↑ Barbara ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 8:26 pm

So, did you know that studies have shown that blacks are at least 30% more likely to be incarcerated that whites after being convicted of the same crime. At least. Incarcerations for marijauna are most interesting. Blacks and whites use at approximately the same rate. Shall we look at incarcerations?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....arts/

Add in the effect of poverty on crime rates.

Let's hear again while more blacks are imprisoned?

↑ mazal555

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 8:27 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Where do you get that? Please post sources. According to the CDC the teenage birth rates are virtually the same for black, white non-hispanic and Hispanic teenagers. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/n.....ble16

Regarding incarceration, whites are twice as likely to do cocaine as blacks and hispanic, but less likely to go be incarcerated. Incarceration in the US does not equal a criminal. See http://www.huffingtonpost.com/......html and see http://www.naacp.org/pages/cri.....sheet

I'm sure that all of the Orthodox Jews are behaving very nicely. Nobody is molesting children, doing welfare fraud, tax evasion, domestic violence, hiring illegals, misrepresenting products, laundering money, using illegal drugs, doing financial crimes, working under the table, or anything of the sort. We are all law abiding, upstanding citizens.

↑ mommy3b2c ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 8:34 pm

Barbara wrote:

That, I'll agree with you is very unjust. Still does not change my opinion on this case.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 8:36 pm

mazal555 wrote:

I love you.

↑ Barbara ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 8:41 pm

mommy2b2c wrote:

Please tell that to Akai Gurley's kids. Eric Garner's family. The parents of the 12 year old with a toy gun.

Tell that to Marissa Alexander who was sentenced to 20 years in prison for firing a warning shot after her husband attacked and threatened to kill her. (She eventually won a retrial and accepted a plea for about 3 years in prison.)

↑ mommy3b2c ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 8:58 pm

Barbara wrote:

I am unfamiliar with those cases. However, even if they were wrongly killed or sentenced I can feel outrage at what happened to them while at the same time continuing to believe that Michael brown was killed in self defense, and that the officer who killed him was acting as he should and that Michael brown was killed because he assaulted and charged at a police officer. Just because sometimes blacks (or anybody) is treated unfairly doesn't mean that is the case every time.

dancingqueen ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 9:00 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

as I read further in the thread, it turns out your numbers are false, but even if it was so why the focus on babies out of wedlock? Yes that's not allowed according to the Torah, but not a crime.

↑ dancingqueen

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 9:03 pm

I do think that ignoring documented problems in any group, be it blacks, Jews, Italians, beer drinkers, crocheters, etc is foolish since it means those same mistakes will continue to be made. As we know from our own communities though, it's hard to fix some of these big communal issues.

↑ marina ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 9:05 pm

mommy2b2c wrote:

Really? Shall I post videos and articles now about white guys who attack cops and get tasered, if anything? I guess I shall.

Here's an article: http://madamenoire.com/458516/.....ce/2/

Here's a video:
http://atlantablackstar.com/20.....ason/

Police are much more likely to use physical force against blacks than against whites. That statistic is not even controversial.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 9:34 pm

http://www.reuters.com/article.....41128

The UN is apparently concerned about police brutality and racial profiling in the US and expects the US to end the inhumane treatment of prisoners and of shooting unarmed civilians.

↑ mommy3b2c ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 9:55 pm

southernbubby wrote:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/28/us-usa-un-torture-idUSKCN0JC1BC20141128

The UN is apparently concerned about police brutality and racial profiling in the US and expects the US to end the inhumane treatment of prisoners and of shooting unarmed civilians.

The un is also concerned about the terrible apartheid state of israel and wants to hold them accountable for all their terrible war crimes. I give a cr-p what the un thinks. I live in the greatest country in the world and the justice system may have its flaws, but so far it's the best that there is.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 10:12 pm

mommy2b2c wrote:

I agree with you that the UN is unfair in their treatment of Israel but what is wrong with implementing reforms so that black teens are not killed by police officers unnecessarily?

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 10:19 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

You can see what Marina said about a post of mine and my reply. I'm sure there is lots of stuff going on that we don't know about. I hope and pray there is, but I do believe it, too.

ETA: I see I'm not the only one to address this.
I wish that the voices of the real leadership were heard as widely as Sharpton and Jackson. If you want to read a sweet book, read Have a Little Faith by Mitch Albom.

↑ gold21

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 11:26 pm

the UN should buzz off of criticizing us and focus on the MUCH LARGER issues going on in other countries.

this video sums up how I feel about the UN criticizing us
feel free to replace "Israel" with "USA" and "boycott" with "criticize" as needed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se3PaCX7sjI

im not denying that we have things to work on in the US, but I dont see how its the business of the UN, who seem to conveniently ignore so many bigger issues anyway.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 11:58 pm

gold21 wrote:

The USA was mentioned in the video in regard to Guantanamo bay. While the other countries do have more frequent and harsher human rights violations than the US, police officers killing of unarmed black teenagers still have to be curbed. Mike Brown, after the initial round of bullets, ran away. The police officer pursued him rather than calling for back up. Had he not done this, the boy would have lived.

↑ DrMom ↓

Mon, Dec 01 2014, 1:05 am

mommy2b2c wrote:

This.

Barbara, I am disturbed by your sentiment that -- despite ample evidence exonerating him of any wrongdoing -- Darren Wilson should be convicted so he can serve as a korban for all racial inequalities in America.

That's not how our justice system is supposed to work. The fact that the two posters on this thread who are pushing for this are attorneys strikes me as very concerning.

Edited to correct typo.