would your kids do this? Please be honest about it

↑ freidasima ↓

Sun, Apr 28 2013, 6:42 am

Yeah well it ain't gonna happen. I spoke to dh about it again and he just looked at me, that kind of look of "freidasima everything happens for a purpose" and said very very quietly, "As we came up the stairs I declared it hefker bedieved so that the older ones wouldn't be punished bashomayim as they are responsible for their deeds".

My zaddik. oy.
I also have a feeling that he will choose the time and place to speak to at least one or two of the parents about this, but I also know that with that is going on healthwise (him waiting for biopsy results, I'm taking tests and not doing great as well), it's not on his head now.

↑ freidasima ↓

Sun, Apr 28 2013, 7:09 am

I'm not going to teach them a lesson because I don't beleive that with the all pervasive culture of doing this around here it will even make a dent. WE are the anomaly, not what they did. I heard from neighbors that anything not nailed down was taken and this is just the norm for Lag Baomer and the kids "steal" from each other's groups stuff for it as well.

Under those circumstances I can teach my kids but I am not about to be the neighborhood watch and teacher. On the way home from work for example, two kids, they looked like they were under army age, were weaving all over the road, cut me (and other drivers off) and gave us the finger with a big smile. It was NOT a joke, this was a major thoroughfare and it could have cost lives. I could have "taught them a lesson and made them accountable" but I chose to back down and keep far away as it could have gotten dangerous. In my old age I have learned a lesson, you can't educate the world, just protect yourself to the best of your ability and if you are going to educate anyone, then just your family, you have limited health and strength.

↑ etky ↓

Sun, Apr 28 2013, 7:35 am

5*Mom wrote:

FS, a refuah sheleima b'meheira to both of you!

It does sounds like you do have to conserve your energies now. I also think that the boys might have learned something from this event even if they didn't show it. The very fact that they were apprehended and chastised may have made an impact and may encourage them to think twice in the future.
Lag B'Omer seems to bring out the worst in kids. One year, when we were still living in Jerusalem, the park benches of the park near our home (Park San Simon) were completely torn apart and burned on Lag B"Omer. Some of the grass had been scorched too. I remember being so horrified when I came to the park with the kids the next day. The papers even reported it.
On the bright side, DH and I did our annual bonfire tour around the yishuv last night (and checked up on the kids too). Everything seemed quite tame this year (at least from what we saw), different groups, mostly Bnei Akiva, Ezra and Tzofim, doing their thing and having a good time. It was very nice. The fire dept. was called to put out one fire, but that davka was one that adults had lit and had gone out of control.

↑ CPenzias ↓

Sun, Apr 28 2013, 7:54 am

I'm sorry FS. Your situation does not sound like fun right now :-( iy"h it will get better soon.
I can't believe these kids...it's really awful. I love Israel and would love to live there sometime (husband doesn't wish to) but this kind of thing is a HUGE turnoff for me. I don't know that I'd be able to get over it... I know I still have a lot to learn in life but wow...

↑ naturalmom5 ↓

Sun, Apr 28 2013, 8:33 am

I don't know FS.. I know you don't want to hear this , but I'm going to say it because I care I about you.
From your last 2 posts you sound more like 84 then 52. I would really strongly encourage that you get the **** out of there and move to an adult community in Florida, Arizona, or the Israeli equivalent . What do you need it for for ?
Aren't things stressful enough with Arabs , terrorist attacks , and illegal Africans running wild , without these "frum" punks on top of everything else.
Really???

Last edited by naturalmom5 on Sun, Apr 28 2013, 8:38 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ etky ↓

Sun, Apr 28 2013, 8:57 am

CPenzias wrote:

Israeli society has its issues and rough edges like any other, but we have to keep things in perspective. Let's not forget that one of the reasons we're so critical is because our expectations of a "Jewish" society are so high, as they should be. Lets' still appreciate that all in all this is a place where even minor holidays like Lag B'Omer are celebrated to the hilt, on a national level. The headline of all the news sites today was the unbelievable crush of people at Kever Rashbi in Meron. And on the personal level, even my 12 year old was able to go to a bonfire with her shevet, for an evening of wholesome fun, and walk home safely at 1:45 in the morning.
And those boys who chopped up the bookcase are probably not on the way to juvenile delinquency or a career in vandalism. They'll grow up and probably be normative citizens of this society, that with all its drawbacks, still has so much to offer on every level.

↑ amother

Sun, Apr 28 2013, 9:05 am

etky wrote:

CPenzias wrote:

You keep telling yourself that Wink

↑ CPenzias

Sun, Apr 28 2013, 9:26 am

You're darn right I expect more of them! Yes, I do! It says in the aseres hadibros "don't steal" they did that! Why should they be excused? Also, maybe they're not on their way to juvy but it very likely is because people don't like to get another jew into trouble which is commendable and beautiful but what's FS supposed to do now? Her furniture was destroyed for no good reason. 1,000 shequel worth. I am furious for her! These boys should not be excused and we should absolutely hold them to a higher standard just like we were... I was always told to "act like a bad yisrael" and "make a kiddush hashem" what have they learned about this? Not enough clearly...it makes me feel a tiny bit less guilty that my son is in public school... I wouldn't want him exposed to this type of behavior

↑ naturalmom5

Sun, Apr 28 2013, 9:49 am

Exactly , in America in the absolute worst inner city neighborhoods all kinds of bad stuff happens . And rappers like JayZ and MM and others sing how bad they are .
My point . Even by the lowest of the low there are NO ILLUSIONs.
Etky.....shame on you!!!
You're an adult and a mother. Take responsibility !!! Encourage others in your peer group to take responsiblity
Don't waste your time rebuking someone else's kids. Go straight to the parents and insist they take responsiblity.
Israelis can be very pugnacious when they want to be...suddenly FS and the rest of you have become so defeatist...

↑ etky ↓

Sun, Apr 28 2013, 10:44 am

I have no reason to be ashamed of anything.
I certainly rise to the occasion when it is warranted. I am not afraid of confrontations with parents, schools, organizations, local govt., national govt. etc. when I have what to say, which is quite often.
That said, as I attempted to explain in my previous posts, there is a different cultural mind set here that is not going to be changed in a day, that is less black and white regarding private property and what constitutes stealing.
I also think your comparison to an inner city is a gross, outlandish exaggeration.
We're hardly talking crime ridden neighborhoods here. We're addressing a once a year outbreak of vandalism of both public and private property that occurs on Lag B'Omer.
We also discussed parental failure to transmit values effectively. Bad parenting is not exclusive to Israel.
If FS and her DH feel up to discussing the incident with their neighbors then they will. Or they can put it off for when they have more emotional and physical strength. Or, they can write it off. It's their choice. As I said before, the boys were called on their behavior and given a dressing down. Hopefully it will have some sort of impact.

↑ freidasima ↓

Sun, Apr 28 2013, 11:39 am

One chooses to live in a particular society and then one has to take the bad along with the good.
Israeli society is not about to change so fast, certainly not about this.
As my mother used to say, to survive in the middle east the kids have to know how to act like the middle east, it isn't the midwest....

As for defeatist, we aren't defeatist, we are just sick, and tired...

ElTam

Sun, Apr 28 2013, 7:41 pm

I live in the U.S. I walked out on my porch one day to see some non-Jewish kids hauling some wood out of my yard. I asked them what they thought they were doing, "We're building a fort." What? They still live down the street but you can bet after the talking to I gave them, they don't set foot on my property.

When I was in high school there were certain public things that were stolen or taken on occasion, just by kids being hooligans, but it was treated very seriously. In one case I remember four kids were suspended from school and had to pay damages. They had gone into someone's yard at night and cut down most of their rose bushes to decorate for a school event. The kids may have thought it was harmless, but the adults certainly didn't treat it that way.

Oh, and if it had been my kids, they would have been delivering the money out of their own savings or working off the bill to repay me after I paid you. Horrible.