Candles on a birthday cake?

↑ Tefila

Sat, Mar 12 2005, 9:49 pm

Quote:

The NESHAMA is candle of G-d.
Fire is not neshama.

It is compared to a fire just as a flame grows when ignited so too does a neshama.

↑ ForeverYoung ↓
Guest

Sun, Mar 13 2005, 12:02 am

But a Neshama is "blown" in; and we blow to put out the fire.
Also, in a candle, the flame doesn't grow - it remains pretty much the same size untill it burns out.

Are there any sources avail?

(I'm just curious)

lucy

Sun, Mar 13 2005, 12:27 am

I'm just wonderring Tovah mentioned using sparklers. WHat do y'all think about that?

↑ hadasa ↓

Sun, Mar 13 2005, 1:39 am

Rivkah - where did you get your definition? Wherever I look, I get the definitions "polytheistic", "heathen", "idolatrous".

In any case, whether Greek culture is "pagan" or not, Avodah Zarah it certainly is!

↑ gryp ↓

Sun, Mar 13 2005, 8:02 am

Quote:

just as a flame grows when ignited so too does a neshama

.
also a flame is always reaching upwards, and a neshama is also always reaching upwards to be united with its Source.

Quote:

But a Neshama is "blown" in; and we blow to put out the fire

its the same concept of blowing- the Neshama is "blown" in to a person, but Hashem "blows out" to put it there.

↑ ForeverYoung ↓
Guest

Sun, Mar 13 2005, 2:06 pm

how about sources, people?
I'm really curious.

↑ gryp ↓

Sun, Mar 13 2005, 2:12 pm

heres an article from chabad.org about the similarities between a neshama and a flame.

The Candle

The soul in the body is somewhat like the flame on a wick.

The fire consumes the wax or oil, without being used up itself. The body, not the soul, is consumed by life.

Even if there are many flames, there will be only a single light in the room. Although there are many souls in the room, there is only one life present.

The candle has form while the flame has no form of its own. The body has form while the soul is formless.

The formless flame is directed and moved about by the wind. Wind in Hebrew is the same word as Spirit, Ruach, which directs and moves the soul about.

The size of the flame is not determined by the size of the candle. The "size" of the soul is not determined by the size of the body. A small-bodied person does not necessarily have a "small" soul.

Although the candle has many characteristics or possible uses such as sealing and lubricating, its primary purpose is to give light. The same is true for the body. Although it has many functions, its essential task is to house the soul in order to bring light into the world.

No matter what color or shape the candle is, the flame's color does not change. No matter what color or shape the body is, the "color" of the soul is unaffected.

The hotter portion of the flame is the upper portion. The soul is the higher aspect of man.

One can light many thousands of candles from a single candle without losing the slightest amount of original light. In fact, surrounded by other lit candles, it stands in even more light. The soul can also ignite many other souls, making them aware of life's purpose, and then it becomes even more illuminated, because it was instrumental in spreading light.

It is easier to relight a wick than it was to light it in the first place. A soul that once knew but went astray, one which has forgotten, is easier to relight, to remind, and to bring back than is one that has never been aware.

In the end, after the flame has consumed all of the candle, it itself must go out. So it is with the soul. After its desires have raced the body through its 70 or 80 years, the body is consumed and then the soul must also go out.

The flame always goes up, reaching towards heaven. The soul also strives to go up, to remember its true identity.

↑ gryp ↓

Sun, Mar 13 2005, 2:28 pm

another article with a few more details:
http://www.chabad.org/library/.....=2182

↑ Motek ↓

Sun, Mar 13 2005, 5:37 pm

and a yartzeit lamp is called a ner neshama, and one is lit for each person who passed on

↑ Rivka ↓

Sun, Mar 13 2005, 6:44 pm

I get my definition from the Oxford Dictionary.

↑ ForeverYoung ↓
Guest

Sun, Mar 13 2005, 7:30 pm

thanks, RG, very interesting.

Quote:

No matter what color or shape the candle is, the flame's color does not change.
The hotter portion of the flame is the upper portion.

these 2 are inaccurate, flame's colour depends on what the candle is made from & the inner part is hotter, as it's where the chemical reaction takes place

Quote:

a yartzeit lamp is called a ner neshama

I know.
But does anybody know why??

Last edited by ForeverYoung on Sun, Mar 13 2005, 10:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

Sun, Mar 13 2005, 8:19 pm

I thought the hottest part of the flame was the base, the blue part. Not the top. You can pass your finger right through the top and it won't hurt.

↑ hadasa ↓

Mon, Mar 14 2005, 1:17 am

Rivkah - maybe it's just another instance of British vs. American English!

↑ Rivka ↓

Mon, Mar 14 2005, 4:41 pm

Maybe Hadassah but I know which came first Wink

About candles, the hottest part is the blue bit, the bit nearest the wick.
You would know that if as a child you took upon the sport of who can put their finger through the shabbos candles the most without getting burnt...great entertainment and fun for all the family!

↑ Motek

Mon, Mar 14 2005, 6:46 pm

ForeverYoung wrote:

Quote:

a yartzeit lamp is called a ner neshama

I know.
But does anybody know why??

because the neshama is compared to a ner ... uh, I think we've been there before Wink

↑ ForeverYoung ↓
Guest

Mon, Mar 14 2005, 6:51 pm

but I'm really curious why such parallel was made!!

hisorerus

Mon, Mar 14 2005, 8:09 pm

There's a Posuk: Ner Hashem Nishmas Adam - the candle of Hashem is the soul of a person.

↑ ForeverYoung ↓
Guest

Mon, Mar 14 2005, 9:02 pm

thanks.

but why is this parallel made?

micki

Mon, Mar 14 2005, 10:30 pm

this is based on a pasuk in tanach.
who are we to qquestion WHY Hashem made this parallell? we have to just accept it. same as we accept anything that has no explanation.
now once you've accepted this pasuk as a fact, you can explore the many interpretaions of reasons. for example the reasons RG quoted to us.

↑ hadasa

Tue, Mar 15 2005, 2:56 am

Hasn't anyone mentioned this before? The Tanya explains that a Jew is like a candle. The Neshama is the flame, which constantly reaches upwards, no matter how you hold the candle. The flame naturally strives to reunite with its source in Heaven. So too, the Neshama of a Jew yearns to reunite with Hashem.

The wick, hoever, holds the flame back, not letting it dissipate, not letting it rise to its source. This is the body, which keeps the Neshama here in this world, holding it back from rising to reunite with Hashem.

That is what is called in Chassidus "ratzo vashov" and is given as one of the explanations why Jews sway back and forth when Davening, since the Jew is like a candle, with the Neshama pulling upward and the Guf pulling it back down.