Nechemya Weberman charged with abusing 12 yr old girl

↑ chavamom ↓

Sun, May 20 2012, 10:14 am

Besiyata Dishmaya wrote:

Raisin wrote:

Yosef hatzaddik was not accused of peadophilia, but of rape. By a grown woman. whose husband knew very well she was lying. He also went through no trail but was thrown in prison.

Oh, please, it's the same idea. Although her husband might not have, people then still believed her.

Nowadays you have to be very wary with such accusations which is more often than not untrue!
A single person's evidence is not enough according to Torah for a man to be accused or for anyone to be motzi shem ra on him even though it's all over the media.

Reality check:

Quote:

There are a number of articles that give what social scientists agree is an acceptably accurate picture of the rates of false allegations of s-xual abuse in general.

In a study that looked at all reports of s-xual abuse received by the Denver child protective services in 1983, child protective social workers reported that 53 percent of allegations were well founded, 24 percent didn’t have enough information to allow substantiation, 17 percent were made in good faith and involved a legitimate concern, but had other explanations, and 6 percent were probably false.28

In another study, researchers looked at results from the child protective files of 100 county social service agencies in North Carolina. They were interested in the false allegation rates of different age groups of children. They found rates between 4.7 percent and 7.6 percent, with rates of false allegations rising with the age of the child.29

A good number of other researchers have found false allegation rates between 2 and 8 percent.30 These studies have the disadvantage of being clinical studies, and of having relatively small, non-random samples.31 Even so, their findings agree with those previously cited, which were methodologically sound research projects using large, naturally occuring samples.32

And those stats include contentious divorce cases where one parent is trying to discredit the other, which is the most likely scenario for a false charge.

↑ Mama Bear ↓

Sun, May 20 2012, 11:52 am

I want you all to know, that I've been speaking for days to friends & acquaintances and you're wrong with the assumption that theyre doing this out of rishus. it's totally out of naivete; they really, really innocently cannot begin to fathom that a choshuve person can do such a thing, and are firmly convinced that a girl who 'looks like that' is perfectly capable of concocting such a plot to bring him down. I've been trying to play devil's advocate and open their minds a little to the possibility that all might not be as it seems, and there is no swaying them. They are definitely not doing this out of rishus, but out of innocent, sheltered belief. None of these people have internet, and they can absolutely not fathom the possibility of a reknowned, well loved person being a sx abuser. They just can't. So the posters here who are coming to W's defense are really, really convinced of his innocence. it's a very tough cultural barrier to crack. they don't have the exposure to the 'outside world' to have the awareness that anyone can be an abuser; they can't wrap their minds around it. It's an impenetrable sheltered worldview.

Give his supporters the benefit of the doubt; they truly can't fathom that this really could've happened.

superjew ↓

Sun, May 20 2012, 12:03 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

And when they do get the proof? Or the shock of the outcome of the trial being that he is guilty? (not saying that he is, but hypothetically speaking) Would they THEN allow their sheltered minds open up to believe this? Or will nothing be enough and they will deny and cover up as always?

↑ happybeingamom ↓

Sun, May 20 2012, 12:09 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

I agree with you there

When I speak to people who are in their 70's they also can't believe and think that children make up these stories and are out to get the abuser.

The horrifying thing is that it makes it so much easier for the abuser to to abuse and molest.

That is why when posters brought the example of Yosef and Potiphars wife I brought up Amnon and Tamar.

What is in tanach is what is important for future generations. The story of Amnon and Tamar shows that even a good/ great(choshuv) person can lose control of themselves and plot to abuse someone as what happened there. A lot of schools most probably skip over this part as it is not appropriate for young ladies. However I think learning about this would only give information to girls and they can be cautious and not abused.

↑ 5*Mom ↓

Sun, May 20 2012, 12:59 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

At a certain point, ignorance and naivete are a choice.

↑ 5*Mom

Sun, May 20 2012, 1:04 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

None of these people have internet, and they can absolutely not fathom the possibility of a reknowned, well loved person being a sx abuser. They just can't.

This I find very interesting indeed. Historically, there have been s*x abusers long before the advent of internet, and there are contemporary s*x abusers with no internet access. Which means that lack of internet access does not necessarily prevent one from s*xually abusing others if one is deviant in this particular way. Mama Bear is correctly pointing out that what lack of internet access, or exposure to the wider world in general, may actually prevent is the awareness of dangers and the knowledge to protect oneself, one's loved ones and community from those dangers. Hmm.

smilingmom ↓

Sun, May 20 2012, 1:09 pm

I am sorry to say , but a trial and conviction will sadly not conviction that a "frumme yid" can do such things.

I just looked up the 11211 zip code in the NYS relations offender registry. For the list of those willy CONVICTED molesters and found "Avrohom Goodman" who was convicted of se3ually abusing a six year old and seven year old. and "Isaac Leichter" who was convcited of se3ually abusing a 16 year old. Both animals look no different than any other 'choshuva' person in willy. Do they not believe that those animals are guilty or perhaps the six and seven year old made it up?

I am not trying to single out Chassidim, the list in Boro Park, Flatbush and Long Island is appalling filled with Jews.

↑ superjew ↓

Sun, May 20 2012, 1:43 pm

smilingmom wrote:

Ugh, so many thoughts on this. First thought is that it isn't fair because it happens in all types of people. But yes, we Jews should be better than that - since we are the chosen one, we are higher and should not be like the 'rest of people'. But its a debate because some are truly sick and its sad because they just need help (which they should have gotten right away) and again, I do feel others are just raised so sheltered and naive that they don't know better and because of the s*xual hormones they don't know how to deal with it and a pattern forms. : sigh: Its a sad cycle that needs to be put to an end. The reason I feel its so sad in this sect is because 1- We should be better since we're Jews 2- The stress of all s*xual rules (separating girls/boys to extremes) , never discussing anything related to it and so on, causes questions, fears, and s*xual tension causing built up lust...causing problems if they are not allowed to explore it naturally...
Just my two cents.

But the above is just a sad situation (that should get fixed) but the part that is WORSE to me are the people denying it, covering it up and allowing people with these issues to continue and strive.
WTH?! Now THATS whats messed up!!!!!!!!!!

↑ groisamomma ↓

Sun, May 20 2012, 4:55 pm

I really have nothing new to add to the discussion, but I want to add another voice of reason here. When I read the coverage here in the beginning and I watched the YouTube videos of the fundraising for Weberman, a strong part of me doubted the victim's story. However, having read and seen what I did on the internet over the last few days, I cannot in good conscience believe that ANY girl, no matter who or what she looked like, would concoct a story like this.

Too many details about this man are questionable: The whole yichud thing--I can't wrap my mind around UTA, a huge yeshiva that has tons to lose--sending teenage girls to be "treated" by a man in a private office secluded with one girl at a time. Where is their seichel? If they're going to use him for girls, which is already questionable, why not set him up an office within the school??

Without pointing fingers, I feel terribly sorry for his previous victims. But it would certainly strengthen the case against him if they would come out of hiding and lend this story some validity. Why are the parents of these children, now adults some of them, STILL keeping it under wraps? Is it not worth it for their child to be redeemed? They have a golden opportunity--they aren't the "moser" here; the therapist is if that's what they're worried about.

Lastly, I want to make something clear: We can all talk about it and debate all we want, but at the end of the day it is DA Hynes that gets to build the case against Weberman and history has shown that he is NOT pro-victims when dealing with this demographic. The only hope this girl has of getting him to actually serve time in jail is to demand that the case be tried out of his jurisdiction. Especially since it looks like she'll be standing alone with no one else coming out to validate her claims.

How many molesters in the community got verdicts of "child neglect" and ended up with probation or community service? How many of them took plea bargains so that they don't have to actually sit in jail??

And how many of them ACTUALLY SERVED an appropriate amount of jail time?? Slim chance with the circumstances being as they are.

↑ Besiyata Dishmaya ↓

Sun, May 20 2012, 6:21 pm

StrawberrySmoothie wrote:

Besiyata Dishmaya wrote:

After several months being away from IM, I was quite surprised to see this as a hot topic. I did not read the 16 pages of posts and I don't live in Williamsburg but I did hear from reliable sources what Chloe and some others said about the case.

Other than that, all I would say is that Yosef Hatzaddik was thrown into jail for the same accusation. Was he guilty? Of course not, but how else would Mrs. Poitifar, Zlicha, show her revenge? Then, like today, many people also believed that Yosef Hatzaddik was guilty.

Nowadays, this trend is quite common. You want to fire a teacher, you or are upset at someone, just go ahead make a bilbul and file such a report and off he's send to jail. I know several innocent men who were accused likewise because of revenge or for whatever reason.

The media loves such stories in general whether true or not, esp. if there are Jews involved and even more so if it's chareidi or chassidish.

Those who have yiras Shomayim would know better than to believe blindly everything they read or hear from the secular press.

I never get personal here. But your sick disgusting words here show your true colors. I cannot even express my anger properly. More like my hurt.

Onaas devorim. The words you wrote here are causing immense pain to many victims here. And some of us are realizing how maybe it was good we never reported the abusers...

I'm shocked at your post! I wouldn't believe it's from a frum woman! You seem to have a hard time swallowing a case of a Jew who was accused and found innocent. If you'd read what I wrote you'd see that I did not take sides but just made you aware that although that girl accused him, ACCORDING TO TORAH THIS PERSON WOULD NOT BE INDICTED because of lack of evidence. You don't like this halachah, go fight it out with the Torah, go fight it out with Hashem.

I did not say that it didn't happen and I also know of victims whose lives became miserable because of it, but not "EVERY single case reported by the media" actually happened. I just wanted to point out that there ARE cruel women/girls who hitch onto this wagon and accuse whoever they have a grudge on since they are well aware that people enjoy shmutz, true or false, and accept it blindly.

StrawberrySmoothie wrote:

Besiyata Dishmaya wrote:

Raisin wrote:

Yosef hatzaddik was not accused of peadophilia, but of rape. By a grown woman. whose husband knew very well she was lying. He also went through no trail but was thrown in prison.

Oh, please, it's the same idea. Although her husband might not have, people then still believed her.

Nowadays you have to be very wary with such accusations which is more often than not untrue!

A single person's evidence is not enough according to Torah for a man to be accused or for anyone to be motzi shem ra on him even though it's all over the media.

So you're saying that every person accused is guilty. Shame on you! There were gedolei yisroel throughout generations who were accused of the same (I think the Sdeh Chemed was one of them, not sure) and then found to be innocent. I personally know of "several" cases who were accused and then found to be innocent.

↑ StrawberrySmoothie ↓

Sun, May 20 2012, 6:31 pm

Besiyata Dishmaya wrote:

StrawberrySmoothie wrote:

Besiyata Dishmaya wrote:

StrawberrySmoothie wrote:

Besiyata Dishmaya wrote:

Raisin wrote:

Yosef hatzaddik was not accused of peadophilia, but of rape. By a grown woman. whose husband knew very well she was lying. He also went through no trail but was thrown in prison.

Oh, please, it's the same idea. Although her husband might not have, people then still believed her.

Nowadays you have to be very wary with such accusations which is more often than not untrue!

A single person's evidence is not enough according to Torah for a man to be accused or for anyone to be motzi shem ra on him even though it's all over the media.

You probably would not consider me frum if you met me in real life. But that is ok, plenty of ladies here know me and can vouch for me.

I'm so so cruel, crueler than the pedophile who would come and hurt me every day after school when I was in 5th grade. Especially since one day he will probably be one of your "gedolim". And then he is untouchable of course.

Shame on me. Sounds about right...