Nechemya Weberman charged with abusing 12 yr old girl

↑ First Lady ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 4:47 pm

chavamom wrote:

You are right, all of you. Innocent until proven guilty. But you realize the state investigated this case extensively and brought an astonishing 150 counts against this man? And as was posted, teh girl did not go to the police nor did her family. A mandatory reporter reported this case. MINIMALLY you should be "choshed" and acting to protect your families. Where does "raise money for the accused and harass the alleged victim" comes into play? I want to vomit thinking that this is some twisted form of righteousness in some of your minds.

I don't think any (or most) of the posters here agreed with harassing the victim mostly they were bringing the second side of the story, every story has 2 sides.
I think the way it was handled in the community was a big Chillul hashem and a community that is known not to have a clean slate when it comes to reporting abusers should have been very extremely careful how they handle everything.
I feel bad for the girl either way. I hope the allegations are not true for her sake.

↑ chavamom ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 4:52 pm

Unfortunately, it seems very, very likely that they are.

↑ Barbara ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 4:53 pm

chavamom wrote:

Gee, thanks for posting the shmutz from the street Mama Bear. Really. You shouldn't have.

Whatever do you mean?

We need to keep an open mind. Not to think poorly of this poor, poor man who faces 150 or so counts of abuse.

And to do that, we need to hear accusations made against the girl whom police claim was raped, over and over again. Because really, its OK to say nasty things about her. Halachic prohibitions as to what we say only apply to accused rapists and people convicted of fraud. Not to little girls.

And to those of you who accuse me, and others, of an anti-Charedi standpoint, has it ever occurred to you that THE VICTIM IS ALSO CHAREDI. Or doesn't she count?

↑ First Lady ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 4:56 pm

Barbara wrote:

chavamom wrote:

Gee, thanks for posting the shmutz from the street Mama Bear. Really. You shouldn't have.

Barbara, I don't think she would appreciate that Wink

↑ MaBelleVie ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 4:59 pm

The sad thing is that even if he is found guilty, people won't change their view. They'll STILL maintain that it was all a setup and the courts are trying to make an example of him. Nothing seems to ever change peoples attitudes. And the next time is happens, it will be the same story.

↑ Maya ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 5:02 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

This is my thought, too. And if he's found guilty and put in prison, there will be more fundraisers and propaganda to get him out of jail. It's scary.

↑ Clarissa ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 5:25 pm

I didn't read all the way through that long post where the victim gets attacked, but let's just say that I don't care to hear Satmar people talking about how rebellious she was. Two reasons:

1) I don't believe it, necessarily, nor do I even know that that means.

2) Rebellious kids can and do get molested. in fact, kids who are unhappy (and perfectly good kids get unhappy) can be targets for predators who present themselves as a safe haven.

shirtsandskirts ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 6:23 pm

MomaBear:
I have my theories on why this happened, but I won't elaborate bc of Loshon hora.

What on earth is this supposed to mean- what difference does it make why she was rebellious. This doesn't sound like you are being neutral to both sides, you clearly have an agenda against her.

↑ StrawberrySmoothie ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 6:37 pm

So so sad that it's hard to believe because he is a "chashuv" man. This just validates so many victims fears of reporting, because no one will believe them. Hence, the many pedophiles walking around freely.

MamaBear, you did well. Thank you for proving a point. She started seeing him and her behavior seemed to worsen. Hmm, wonder why that could be? Maybe because she was being raped and reacting to the trauma!

This is beyond sickening. Its just plain sad. I want to cry for all the little kids whose innocence was stolen and their trust shattered by their families and communities. Its heartbreaking.

↑ momoftwo2 ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 6:51 pm

Who says chushiv people cant ever sin? Don't you know of the kohen Godal (cant recall his name) who went into the kodesh hakadashim for years and sinned at the age of 80? No I 'm not taking sides, but no one is immune.
OTOH, I realized that the prominent rabbis were inside while the community outcasts were protesting outside. What am I missing here?

↑ chavamom ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 6:54 pm

There are rabbis supporting her too. They just work quietly behind the scenes and don't show up at protests. Perhaps they should have.

↑ momoftwo2

Thu, May 17 2012, 6:57 pm

My question is if she has supporters, where are they? All I saw on line was some weirdo talking

↑ chavamom ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 7:03 pm

I'm just going to refer you to the article quoted at length here: http://imamother.com/forum/vie.....13119

Ritty

Thu, May 17 2012, 7:20 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

Okay. First off, I dont have any specific insider information other than hearsay, gossip and rumor. I've spoken on the phone with many locals, I've read the blogosphere, watched the news clips, and am well aware of the current environment, the media perspective on the abuse (pardon the pun) of the already-victimized, b'kitzer, I'm well read up on the whole kit and caboodle, so the following is how I was able to piece together the whole story. None of this is fact; NONE OF US KNOW THE TRUE FACTS. Everyone here on this site, and all over the web, only knows gossip and hearsay and she-said-he-said. So keep an open mind when reading this.

As I understand it, the girl, who shall heretofore be referred to as K, began showing signs of rebellion and confusion in elementary school. I have my theories on why this happened, but I won't elaborate bc of Loshon hora. But whoever knows her background can well imagine why. The school admin was getting concerned about her acting out and asked her parents to find someone for her to talk to. Since her father is good friends with the defendant, heretofore referred to as W, who is a respected community askan who has counseled numerous people and helped scores of others in general, she began to see him.

NOW: the allegations that he 1) took her upstate for 12 hours, 2) spent 3 hours a time with her, 3) transgressed yichud - I have a hard time believing that, considering what an ehrlicher Yid he is. We did not get corroboration from his side that this was true. So, you may choose to believe this information,, and you may choose not to believe this information. Remember, right now, it's all conjecture.

Unfortunately despite the counseling, her behavior got worse and the school was forced to ask her to leave. None of the other schools wanted to accept her until she was finally accepted, as someone noted on this thread, in Munkatch.

Now here is where the story gets dicey. There are 2 'stories' floating around about what happened next. The "K" camp claims as was reported on CALANY, that K was sent to a therapist by her school, where she revealed the abuse, and the therapist reported it to the authorities. The "W" camp claims that the charges were trumped up by a boyfriend of K, who as the 2 different versions go was either a) caught by K's father or b) a 'stalker' to K a few years ago, in either case, W was asked to intervene, he told the boyfriend to stay away from the girl - or else! And the boyfriend vowed revenge against W.

Once the charges were filed, the K family offered to settle it quietly, but W was so horrified at the accusation, that he pleaded innocent and is determined to clear his name in court.

Now, here is where the two camps form. There are two ways to view this story.

1) HORRORS! An innocent man has been framed! All W did was try to help this girl, and this is how he gets repaid! The girl cannot be trusted, she's a troublemaker, anyone can decide to exact revenge on an authority figure they're upset at, anyone is fair game, their name will be tarnished forever!
2) DISGUSTING! How can anyone side with W? How can anyone choose not to believe this girl? When there's smoke there's fire, something definitely happened there, why is the community always siding with the abuser and not the victim? Small wonder victims are afraid to own up if this is how they get treated!

It's very easy to get carried away with either of the 2 viewpoints, depending on where you stand. Everyone is horrified - but horrified to one extreme. The Wmsbg oilam cannot grasp that a person of such standing, who has everything to lose by committing such a crime, would actually do something like that, while it's not hard for them to believe that a girl who's been a troublemaker for years would cook up this libel to get back at a community she hates. If you're an outsider, not knowing either of them - not K and not W - it's super easy to jump on the bandwagon of "Stop protecting the abusers, protect the victim", especially with the current environment of animosity and stereotype against the 'rabbis' for 'brushing abuse under the rug'.

I'm not denying that such brushing occurs. I'm not denying that abuse occurs. But I'm also recognizing that abuse of the opposite occurs, too; it's easy, and convenient, for someone who has a vendetta against their former community, to accuse a person of power and bring him down. Unfortunately, whether you choose to believe K or choose to believe W, youre then disenfranchising a large segment of the population; the victims of abuse, or the askanim who have been trying to help struggling youth. Both of these segments will now be reluctant to reach out, knowing that their word will never stand up against the word of the other side.

Now, where did the W camp go terribly wrong? By turning this into a media spectacle. I understand they needed to raise funds for his defense. He is being accused of a crime; he is facing a lengthy jail sentence. Getting a public defender is almost worse than getting no defender. So yes, if he needed a legal fund, he deserves a legal fund just like anyone accused of a crime who can't afford a lawyer. But this could have been accomplished quietly, without all this fanfare. Even had they decided to rent a ballroom and turn it into a large fundraiser, those posters were outrageous, which led to the media firestorm. The news clips I watched online were horrendous; these sheltered people have no idea how to comport themselves on camera and they came across smug and leery. One or two of the spokespeople did present compelling statements, but by and large, the community came off looking terrible in the media. In my opinion, W should have taken a plea bargain; haven't we learned from the past few trials with frum defendants - Rubashkin, Lebowitz, Weingarten - who guilty or not guilty, were served 30 year sentences!!! In contrast, frum defendants who took plea bargains, served quiet, short sentences and moved on with their lives. I really hope justice is served; if he is truly innocent, he should be exonerated, and if he isn't, he should serve his time.

The bottom line of this long megillah is - everyone here, every single poster, needs to have an open mind and NOT JUMP TO SUCH HASTY CONCLUSIONS. We do not know the facts. All we know is hearsay. Both sides are very heated; neither side will ever give in. No one here will be convinced that they are wrong. But I want each of you to try to see the other side's point of view. If youre staunchly defending the girl and are completely convinced that W did molest her; can you for one moment put yourself in the shoes of W's supporters? To them, believing that such a wonderful, respected community activist is capable of such an awful crime is basically impossible. Believing that a girl who has flaunted unspoken community standards time and time again, and surrounds herself with many other rebels and troublemakers has concocted the libel out of revenge is way more plausible. But if youre a "W" supporter and are horrified at the people here who do believe her and are outraged that you are defending him, put yourself in their shoes for a minute. To the world at large, the world that does not know either K or W, this is a cut-and-dried case of a helpless, confused girl being molested and then harrassed for speaking up. You will not be able to explain your point of view no matter how hard you try, and youre making us all look worse....

In my opinion, we need to lay this whole debate to rest, and leave it up to the American Court System - and the Hidden Heavenly Hand manipulating this world - to figure it all out. All we are accomplishing here is perpetuating misconceptions, building hate, supporting divisiveness, and furthering stereotypes. WE DON'T KNOW THE FACTS. WE ONLY KNOW HEARSAY. WE CANNOT RENDER A VERDICT.

I hope that this long winded essay has succeeded in opening everyone's eyes a tiny bit, at least, and presenting a balanced perspective on this endless bruhaha. Have yourselves a good Shabbos and a happy cheesecake baking week!

I love you, Mama Bear!

↑ Mama Bear ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 7:25 pm

DunkinLover wrote:

Actually, no. The 'theory' if you will wasn't her fault in the least. The loshon hora wouldve been on other people. I feel for her.

Hatemywig ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 7:36 pm

The dynamics of abusers and abused are so typical here, its frightening.

Abusers, tend to be (with the emphasis on; tend to be) charming, charismatic, well liked, popular community figures who build themselves a particular type of wonderful reputation that no one would actually believe if they heard otherwise.

Troubled teens and pre-teens are such easy victims - they are troubled, they need a kind word and guiding hand.

When a troubled teen in such a position is abused, he/she is scared to complain, after all, who is going to believe him/her? After reading the craziness going on in Williamsburg, it's not surprising why one would be scared of being labeled as a trouble maker!

Just look at the Jungreis story - even there, are you going to accuse the abused of being a rebel? yet the father is still being harassed!

So what now? Mr Jungreis is a trouble maker now?

Every time someone reports seksual abuse they are trouble makers? false accusers? Looking for revenge?

↑ sequoia ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 7:55 pm

Let me tell you: you become frighteningly vulnerable to evil, charismatic people when you're in a difficult place in your life and looking for some comfort.

In my case a) I was an adult, not a child, and b) the situation resolved so I no longer had to interact with this person. But during the few months that I did have to interact with him because of a certain situation, he acquired a level of power over me that in retrospect was terrifying. I think I would have done anything he said.

↑ Luv2hearfromu ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 8:01 pm

Clarissa and ora_43: I guess I can't say don't see male therapists as a general rule since in other communities interaction between men and woman is normal so these men can deal with it better( maybe)., but it's definitely like that in our real ultra frum community. Having such delicate heart to heart talks arouse s-xtual feelings (wrong?).. Im not saying " never see a male doc or clerk"..

ynmets

Thu, May 17 2012, 8:01 pm

Just as a by the way :

Most people in the Williamsburg community don't believe the girl.

Last edited by ynmets on Thu, May 17 2012, 8:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ Maya ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 8:11 pm

ynmets wrote:

Just as a by the way :

"NOBODY" in the Williamsburg community believes this girl, and doubts this man's innocence.
Well, of course besides for these guys protesting in front of the event ( watch the media clips) and the girl and her boyfriends ( and most of yous on Imamother).

And that's not because we want to "protect the abusers". If we know and have any doubt that a man is guilty, he will never get thousands of supporters( watch the clips) to help him pay his legal fees.

Now all of you will bash me "who told you so".
Well if you don't live in Willy please don't even bother to ask that question. If you do, go ahead and say I'm wrong.

I lived in Willi for 25 years. Does that qualify me to make statements about the community?