Nechemya Weberman charged with abusing 12 yr old girl

Raisin ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 2:03 am

kalsee wrote:

Luv2hearfromu wrote:

So dear readers: the lesson we shud take from this is "never ever send your dd to a male therapist" .The most chusheva respected man can't be trusted behind closed doors with a female.. Why don't ppl think about this in the first place?Any male therapist with a bit of forethought doesnt have one on one sessions with a female. It's more impossible not to fall. It's just human nature.

Men are animals. If you are in a room with a man, he will attack you. It's human nature. Confused

Well, the rules of Yichud were set up for EXACTLY this reason. No, not all men are animals. But enough are that we need to keep yichud. (I think yichud should also apply to young boys and men since it does nothing to protect them against paedophiles)

And yes, my husband would NEVER let himself be in this sort of situation. He had an aquaintance who had some sort of accusation made against him (by an adult woman) so he is very very careful.

I am pretty shocked by this thread. Really I did not believe that are in fact literate women who would side with this guy. Sure, give him a fair trial. But I'm baffled why people think a man is more trustworthy then a woman. Most (all?) rapes, most murders, all wars, are committed are started by MEN. Yes, there are good men, but also some really really bad ones.

And of course a girl who has been raped repeatedly is going to be seriously messed up. What did you think?

↑ chani8 ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 2:19 am

Levtov wrote:

Have you heard of "innocent until PROVEN guilty"?? Does this rebellious kid have any proof??? Anybody can "allege' that someone abused them...

Can someone who has reported on a perp please enlighten this poster as to what are the benefits to the victim who reports??

Oh wait, I have experience with this:

My father who molested me, was reported on by his therapist.

I recently reported on the local pedophile who was endangering my child (after the man was done with all the easier targets).

Let me think about why we reported and what we got out of it. . .

We reported in order to protect further victims from getting hurt, to save the current victim from further abuse, and because it is required by law.

What does the victim get out of having the perp reported?? The victims are saved from further abuse by that perp. If they were already safe from that perp, then, well, there is no obvious benefit.

Instead they get scorned, humiliated, judged, slandered, cross-examined, discounted as a liar and called crazy, sleezy, seductive, unstable, etc. They are deemed 'ruined for life' by even the well-meaning population, and 'damaged goods' by the so-called pious.

And in case you didn't get me, What does the girl in this story get out of this??? And now, her family is being ostracized and shamed and may even be in danger due to the publicity. There have been cases where homes of accusers were burned down!! Why would someone make this up???

But just to be fair, a seriously mentally ill person could actually make something like this up. A young child could be confused about who exactly abused him.

So if this girl is truly mentally ill, and believe me the defense will try to prove just that, then you dis'believers will see truth prevail in the justice system. However. If she is mentally ill enough to contrive this story, then to scorn her is still hateful.

In this case, I cannot believe that anyone would comment against the reports by the media as being biased, because everything I have read, has been very clearly reporting only the facts. How can any of you discount those facts? And obviously, as hard as it is to get a case accepted by the prosecutor's office, they too think that they have enough evidence and proof to press charges and proceed with a case. Further, in case you are ignorant of how the system works, this girl is a witness against him, but it is the DA's office that is pressing charges based on the psychologists report and the testimony of the victim witness.

↑ Clarissa ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 5:45 am

What? The takeaway from this is not to let our daughters see male therapists? Come on. Here's what we should learn:

1) We need to always, and I mean always, teach our children that their bodies are private.

2) We need to teach our children the correct names for body parts. We need to teach them in a way that makes them realize that a p*nis or v*gina or anything else has a name, like hand or neck or tuchus. If we help them be comfortable with these parts they won't sense our discomfort and then feel shame when they want to talk about being inappropriately touched.

3) We needs to acknowledge that, at some point, our children are alone with one adult or another (a teacher, rebbe, family friend) and teach them what is appropriate and what is inappropriate, and they need to know that they have every right to fight back if someone makes them uncomfortable in any way, without fear of retribution.

4) We need to let them know that they can always come to us with anything. A weird feeling about something that has happened, discomfort with even a trusted adult, and any experience. No topic is off limits. No words are off limits. No fears are off limits. Everything can be talked about with us.

5) We need to let them know that we're not uncomfortable with body parts, bodily functions or words. They won't be comfortable talking to us if we make them uncomfortable by transmitting our own discomfort.

6) We need to let them know that WE LOVE THEM AND BELIEVE THEM. If we have doubts about anything they tell us, we go to professionals to help us sort it out. But, while it's being sorted out, we take them as far away from the adult in question as possible.

7) We need to let our children know that we are more loyal to them than to anybody. No matter we have to lose by going public or pursuing a concern, we have far more to lose if we make our children feel that we don't love, trust or believe in them. If we're dealing with a child with emotional issues, we get them the help they need so things can always be sorted out. They're our children. We owe them our loyalty.

↑ Luv2hearfromu ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 6:14 am

Raisin wrote:

kalsee wrote:

Luv2hearfromu wrote:

Men are animals. If you are in a room with a man, he will attack you. It's human nature. Confused

And btw I at all don't think men are animals. On a one and one with a female it can happen to the best of them. It's simply dumb not to take precaution. Why set Urself up for such a situation? I have a family member that coaches ppl. He Wud never b alone with a woman. It's either with her dh or over the phone. He claims that even if nothing " really happens "there are so many crazy woman that if they get upset " make up stories". Anyways bottom line..A MAN that SPEAKS with a WOMAN( usually regarding sensitive and delicate issues ( which tend to arise emotion in ppl() and accepts woman one and one cannot be trusted. Pls don't ever visit such a therapist. I just know too many stories closely that ppl DONT KNOW ABOUT. Why set Urself up for trouble? Doesn't anyone realize that this can do easily happen no matter how of an esteemed man he is?

↑ ora_43 ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 6:17 am

Clarissa,
while I think those are excellent points and very relevant, suggesting them as the take away lesson suggests that this case could have been prevented if the girl's parents had done those things. But we don't know her parents or anything about what they did or didn't teach her.

It could be that they taught her about her body, and helped her feel comfortable coming to them, but that the accused managed to manipulate her anyway because he was not only an adult but her therapist.

I agree though that just saying "don't see male therapists" is unhelpful.

I think some people were disturbed more by the lines the therapist was crossing. IOW not that he was male and seeing female clients, but that he was seeing female clients behind closed doors for hours on end. Given the society he's from, that could be a red flag.

↑ Clarissa ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 6:19 am

Luv2hearfromu wrote:

Raisin wrote:

kalsee wrote:

Luv2hearfromu wrote:

Men are animals. If you are in a room with a man, he will attack you. It's human nature. Confused

I have lots of male friends and did see a male therapist in college. I don't think this type of "let's be scared of men" stuff helps anyone. Cautious and aware? Sure. But are you people making sure your children are never alone in a room with the teachers and rebbes at your schools? No. Because it's not about men being men.

How can heterosexual women be so icked out by men?

Yes, certain situations should be avoided, if they set off alarm bells. But I think you're missing the point.

↑ Clarissa ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 6:22 am

ora_43 wrote:

I don't want to say anything about the girl's parents right now. I do want to say that I saw a woman being interviewed on the news about her wanting to help the molester and I had to change the channel. I hope her children never leave her side. Because, if something happens to them, she'll no doubt throw a big party for their molester. Because, you know, they deserve our support.

I agree that there were red flags with this particular man. I'm sure we'll hear more about what her parents did or didn't do.

Della

Thu, May 17 2012, 8:23 am

Clarissa wrote:

I really like this list. It conveys safety and love to our children.

I thought it was funny that you used the bolded word above when explaining the importance of using correct terminology for body parts Smile

↑ Barbara ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 8:36 am

Chloe wrote:

Barbara wrote:

Chloe wrote:

About CBS and Fox News and all the television channels in front of Continental right now, I think the community brought it upon themselves by their own behavior towards molesters. Their horrible treatment of the victims and the protection for the criminal is now playing against them.
Had they been trusted that it's a community that deals with molesters the way they should be then maybe they wouldn't come down so harsh when such stories happen. But, because the community cannot be trusted due to the way they handled previous s-xual abuse cases, even those that might be innocent are assumed guilty.

No. You didn't. You attacked her in a disgusting manner.

Show me where?

Quote:

You said that you have some "insider" information, and that if other knew what you did, we wouldn't "be influenced by the media" -- ie, we wouldn't believe that this girl was molested.

ie, is the way you choose to perceive what I wrote. I said I know some inside information, I didn't divulge anything, I didn't say he's innocent. I just asked people to hear both sides of the story before they jump to conclusions. And yes, don't be influenced by the media, they only give you one side.

Quote:

You called her liar

.

Really? Where?

I tried my best to put this down as neutrally as possible but I guess for those who are so excited for another opportunity to "get" a Chareidi man (generally speaking) the mere mention that there could actually be another side hinders their ability to read posts that are neutral and meant well.
I am extremely hurt of the accusation you have posted against me when I thought I tried really hard to just clarify that there might be more to the story.
I have never ever ever called a victim of molestation a liar. I am outspoken against child molesters and I won't have people accusing me of something that I would never do.

I stand by my comments. I stand by my report of your post. By stating that you have "inside" information, and that one should discount press reports, you are stating that the victim lied. Period.

But *I" found your attacks on me offensive as well. Is this fellow Charedi? Well, I guess he is, given the community, but I would say the same things were he Yeshivish, MO, or a Buddhist.

Again, the "problem" isn't raising funds for the defendant, or even openly supporting him. He hasn't been convicted, and I have no way of knowing if he's guilty. The "problem" is the attacks in this young woman, the snide little insinuations about "inside information" and other things. The posters (as in leaflets) portraying her as attacking the community.

↑ chavamom ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 8:45 am

Clarissa's list reminded me of something. Our community is a bit schizophrenic when it comes to addressing these issues. A community activist spoke about how when he was a child, a man in chassidic garb [I worded it that way intentionally] groped him on a bus. He announced loudly "YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TOUCH MY P@NIS". Of course the man backed off. Now there are two points about this. Knowlege was obviously this kid's friend and prevented anything else from happening. However, Boro Park was all abuzz that evening with people calling his parents. Why? B/c their son had yelled the world "p@nis" on a bus! And just the icing on the cake? This man spoke at an event about the importance of our children knowing and using the proper terms for their body.....and when the video of the evening was distributed, they bleeped out the word "p@nis". Rolling Eyes

↑ 5*Mom ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 8:52 am

Barbara wrote:

The "problem" is the attacks in this young woman, the snide little insinuations about "inside information" and other things. The posters (as in leaflets) portraying her as attacking the community.

Exactly, although I do also object to any public initiative to support or raise money for him. The girl and her family davka didn't go public. They went to the police, yes, which is what one should do when they feel they were the victim of a crime, but they didn't advertise. It was the good rabbi and his supporters who went public, and of course how they went public--doesn't seem quite so ehrlich to me.

As far as "did he or didn't he?", we've been through this so many times before. Not a one of us will ever know. Despite the fact that some may think their "insider info" gives them a leg up on knowing what happened or the right to assume what did or didn't happen, there are only 2 people who know for sure what did or did not happen. And it will stay that way forever.

The halacha in this case, however, is clear. When there is information that indicates that someone may present a danger to others, while we may not believe it without firsthand knowledge (again, in this case only possessed by him and her) we are obligated to protect ourselves from possible harmas well as inform others of the potential harm. We are not obligated to be dan him l'kaf zchus. That is exactly the opposite of the halachic obligation in the case of potential harm. It's the girl and her family whom we are obligated to be dan l'kaf zchus.

↑ Chloe

Thu, May 17 2012, 8:56 am

Barbara wrote:

Chloe wrote:

Barbara wrote:

Chloe wrote:

No. You didn't. You attacked her in a disgusting manner.

Show me where?

Quote:

You said that you have some "insider" information, and that if other knew what you did, we wouldn't "be influenced by the media" -- ie, we wouldn't believe that this girl was molested.

Quote:

You called her liar

I totally agree with you on this. I'm sorry if you found my post offensive to her or to you, it was not my intention.

↑ eatingbagels ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 9:13 am

5*Mom- actually. it's my understanding that they did NOT go to the police, but the girl's therapist, who was a mandated reporter did. I believe the state is bringing the charges against him and the girl is simply a witness, but I'm not sure.
In any case, when I posted this (I didn't make the title btw, although I guess it was more relevant to the topic than my original title), my point was not about whether he did or didn't but about the gathering and the posters about the girl.
My biggest concern about all this is that there are other victims in Williamsburg who are now even more terrified to come out or even talk to therapists about their issues because if they do then there will be posters and asifas about them. Just as none of us know what truly happened, neither do the children in Williamsburg. If any victim thinks there is a remote possibility this girl was abused, then they know that the same could happen to them if they speak out about their own abuse.
That sort of gathering and posters should be illegal (whether or not the defendant is guilty) because it presents a danger to the community in that victims will be scared to come forward and it gives people in power free license to abuse whoever they will.
Private fundraising for someone who you trust and believe in, ok. Making public gatherings and hanging up posters depicting a relations-abuse victim as a threat to the community: heinous.
I hope the jury hears about this.

↑ 5*Mom ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 9:18 am

eatingbagels wrote:

We are in 1000% agreement.

↑ 5*Mom ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 9:26 am

PROUDPEACOCK wrote:

victims of Williamsburg know what to do. I was personally involved in a case where an uncle abused his niece, The girl spoke, the rabbis took care. The guy is taken care of. End of story. The sad part is that people will think twice before getting involved to help other people with their problems and that is Nuchem Rosenbergs win win here.

If you mean that unlicensed therapists will think twice before representing themselves as qualified therapists and helping other people who need the services of a qualified professional to help them with their problems, sorry but I just can't see the drawback here.