Nechemya Weberman charged with abusing 12 yr old girl

↑ Chloe ↓

Wed, May 16 2012, 9:09 pm

chavamom wrote:

I think the term is "cognitive dissonance". Thinking that someone you have known and trusted in your community even MIGHT be a molester is a very uncomfortable thought. Better to just reject it out of hand and blame the one that brought up such an uncomfortable thought so you can go back to not having to confront these uncomfortable thoughts.....

Wow. No words.
I usually respect your posts immensely and am so shocked by them right now, I can't even come up with a response. I guess you've never bothered to read posts from these "cognitive dissonant" women who are the pioneers in speaking out against child molestation in their hard to change community.

Last edited by Chloe on Wed, May 16 2012, 9:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ IamAJewishWoman ↓

Wed, May 16 2012, 9:09 pm

imamiri wrote:

IamAJewishWoman wrote:

sequoia wrote:

IamAJewishWoman wrote:

sequoia wrote:

Do you think a woman is less trustworthy than a man?

no, I dont think so. I am just trying to say, that we both dont know the truth so we both better keep our mouths shut! (not talking on him and not on HER!!) its REAL lushan hura!

You said specifically, "I can't believe you all would believe a woman!"

I wrote a woman over a man? I didnt just write 'believe a woman', (I believe in myself) for real, I really dont care about the story, just think about it. seriously, imagine chas vasholam they accuse your husband.. well he is a man, so no one is supposed to believe him now?
I will say this again, I have no idea what the truth is, and neither do you, so why dont we both not talk? on EITHER of them!

Yes don't talk about it. That is really sound advice that helps the abusers. Just what they want. Don't talk, don't report, certainly never let the media find out. It's good they have you in their corner. Thumbs Up

you kind of act foolish, if you read any of the posts. I specifically write 'that we both dont know the truth so we both better keep our mouths shut! (not talking on him and not on HER!!) its REAL lushan hura!' and these kind of statements.
I dont side anyone.. I dont jump to conclusions just because.. and I definitely dont side molesters! but what makes you so sure about yourself? that he is a molester? why is this a fact in your head?

↑ imamiri ↓

Wed, May 16 2012, 9:11 pm

IamAJewishWoman wrote:

imamiri wrote:

IamAJewishWoman wrote:

sequoia wrote:

IamAJewishWoman wrote:

sequoia wrote:

Do you think a woman is less trustworthy than a man?

no, I dont think so. I am just trying to say, that we both dont know the truth so we both better keep our mouths shut! (not talking on him and not on HER!!) its REAL lushan hura!

You said specifically, "I can't believe you all would believe a woman!"

I tend to trust victims. Especially when they are usually re-victimized by society in general and their community in particular.

↑ IamAJewishWoman

Wed, May 16 2012, 9:15 pm

imamiri wrote:

IamAJewishWoman wrote:

imamiri wrote:

IamAJewishWoman wrote:

sequoia wrote:

IamAJewishWoman wrote:

sequoia wrote:

Do you think a woman is less trustworthy than a man?

no, I dont think so. I am just trying to say, that we both dont know the truth so we both better keep our mouths shut! (not talking on him and not on HER!!) its REAL lushan hura!

You said specifically, "I can't believe you all would believe a woman!"

I tend to trust victims. Especially when they are usually re-victimized by society in general and their community in particular.

so this is your take on it, your feeling. how about you are not always right? I am just saying this because I cant handle the fact that people form positive assumptions without knowing any truthful details. I mean forming facts on her as well as on him. on BOTH of them! dont you get it??????????????

↑ Chloe ↓

Wed, May 16 2012, 9:16 pm

imamiri wrote:

IamAJewishWoman wrote:

imamiri wrote:

IamAJewishWoman wrote:

sequoia wrote:

IamAJewishWoman wrote:

sequoia wrote:

Do you think a woman is less trustworthy than a man?

no, I dont think so. I am just trying to say, that we both dont know the truth so we both better keep our mouths shut! (not talking on him and not on HER!!) its REAL lushan hura!

You said specifically, "I can't believe you all would believe a woman!"

I tend to trust victims. Especially when they are usually re-victimized by society in general and their community in particular.

Exactly what I wrote before. This community is not trusted when it comes to s-xual abuse because of their behavior in protecting the accused and victimizing the victim. But it's something they have brought upon themselves and they're paying for it.

↑ chavamom ↓

Wed, May 16 2012, 9:26 pm

IamAJewishWoman wrote:

sequoia wrote:

IamAJewishWoman wrote:

I am just so very shocked! why do you ppl choose to believe a young woman over a grown down to earth chushava man? does anyone here know him??? how can you so easily talk?!? I dont get it at all

Well, you're a young woman. Should we not believe you?

well what if they make accusations on your husband when he is that age? should we not believe him?
I have no idea what the truth is, and neither do you, so how can we talk on either party?

If you are married to a man that ignores the laws of yichud and takes a 12 year-old girl up to the mountains alone......yeah, you shouldn't believe him when he says nothing happens.

↑ chavamom ↓

Wed, May 16 2012, 9:32 pm

Chloe wrote:

chavamom wrote:

Um, I was explaining how people say things like "why would you believe this young woman over a chashuv man" or refuse to believe it possible that someone frum could be an abuser. Or how about having a whole fund raiser for a guy with - yes - a lot of evidence that he did abuse this girl? Cognitive dissonance. I'm not really sure what was so horrifying in that post. Or perhaps you understood me to be saying something different?

↑ Chloe ↓

Wed, May 16 2012, 9:47 pm

chavamom wrote:

Chloe wrote:

chavamom wrote:

I guess I took it as a personal attack after being attacked by some posters here which was very hurtful, especially being outspoken against child molestation in a community that needs lots of awareness. I agree that comments like"why would you believe this young woman over a chashuv man" or "what do you expect from a rebel" are horrible, careless and ignorant.
I shouldn't have taken it personally.
I actually don't know how I got tangled into this mess. I innocently tried to neutrally state that there are two sides to a story. I guess I didn't word it perfectly for it to be taken the correct way.

↑ marina ↓

Wed, May 16 2012, 10:03 pm

This section of the forum does not allow for anonymous posting.

I have been contacted by a prominent imamother poster who knows the girl and many details which are not being reported in the papers.

The story itself is worse: the "therapist" manipulated her into thinking she was a slut who sleeps around and then used her as his personal concubine for four years. Her parents found out much much later, when she told a different therapist, who was a mandated reporter. It's a crazy, sick story.

I am posting this because I don't want readers of this thread to get the impression that everyone who knows these people personally all think the child is making up lies and whatever. People who know the girl personally believe she was raped by this freak.

↑ ora_43 ↓

Wed, May 16 2012, 11:56 pm

I had hoped these were posters being put up by his family or friends, but it seems like there really are a lot of people in the community taking sides already, and taking his side over hers. Disgusting. No words for it, really.

There seems to be a lot of ignorance of the way these things work. No, it's not super easy to accuse someone. I mean, it'd be easy to call police and say "so and so did such and such," but they do actually investigate, you realize. They do go over the accuser's story several times to make sure they aren't changing information, and to see that the person is reliable enough that it could stand up in court.

shabri ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 12:00 am

I don't claim to know the facts or the people involved in this story. But what I do know is that we have the halachos of yichud becuase of exactly this. Any "chashuv man" who was not being makpid on the halachos of yichud no matter what good he felt he was doing is opening himself up to such a situation. And frankly that in of it self, makes me suspicious about the whole situation. Why was this chashuv male disregarding the halachos of yichud? Why could this girl not be seen by a frum female therapist (and there are plenty of chareidi female therapists) What sessions are 3 hours long? Even if nothing happened, these parts of the story which do not seem to be argued are quite disturbing.

As a frum licensed therapist I am still bound by the laws of the torah and halacha. As such I don't place myself in a situation where I will be over on halachos of yichud. If I am in a situation where I am treating a male and the situation would be considered yichud (yes I ask my rav shailas) then I would not treat said male.

My DH is a rabbi and a teacher. He often meets with female students. If he is meeting alone with a female student you better believe the door is open and there are people around. They might not be listening in on the conversation but they certainly could walk in at any point.

Luv2hearfromu ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 12:31 am

So dear readers: the lesson we shud take from this is "never ever send your dd to a male therapist" .The most chusheva respected man can't be trusted behind closed doors with a female.. Why don't ppl think about this in the first place?Any male therapist with a bit of forethought doesnt have one on one sessions with a female. It's more impossible not to fall. It's just human nature.

kalsee

Thu, May 17 2012, 12:41 am

Luv2hearfromu wrote:

Men are animals. If you are in a room with a man, he will attack you. It's human nature. Confused

↑ shabri

Thu, May 17 2012, 12:58 am

kalsee wrote:

Luv2hearfromu wrote:

Men are animals. If you are in a room with a man, he will attack you. It's human nature. Confused

I wouldn't rule out a male therapist if they were the best one for the job. I would rule out a therapist male or female who claimed to be frum who were not abiding by basic halacha.

By the way, I have no issues with non frum therapists. But I do have an issue with people misrepresenting themselves as something they are not.

↑ Inspired ↓

Thu, May 17 2012, 1:19 am

bestseven wrote:

Al pi Torah, and I assume all of you do follow the Torah there is no way halachically you need to believe the girl.

If it true he is a rodef. you treat him with suspicion lifee halacha and protect yourself and anyone vulnerable. You do not ignore the accusation and call the girl a liar. that is not torah.
Its good you don't post often because clearly you have a lot of ignorance.

Quote:

How come it never entered your mind that many of these emotionally sick people who have left the fold hate us more than we could hate ourselves.

These emotionally wounded people ARE ourselves. we are all one. That is torah.
No one "leaves the fold" for fun without serious consideration and reason. Many were abused. They started out as sweet innocent children who were wounded by frum people. We don't believe in original sin or that there are children who are born evil and act out because of that.