Children - Kind or Cruel?

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> School age children

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Motek ↓

Tue, Feb 22 2005, 6:33 pm

we can all probably think of examples to show how young children are sensitive to others and kind, as well as examples of children who are mean to others

so what do you think? are children born naturally cruel or kind?

is it nature or nurture?

Tefila ↓

Tue, Feb 22 2005, 7:16 pm

Quote:

is it nature or nurture?

Both!

ForeverYoung ↓
Guest

Tue, Feb 22 2005, 8:28 pm

even though I believe that each child is intrinsically good, we're told that untill bar/bas mitzva the chiled doesn't have yeitzer tov - he's pure yeitzer haRa.

I think children can be cruel for 3 main reasons:

1. they do not fully understand the results of their actions

2. they have no other way of defending themselves

3. attention seeking

and of cource, the plain old cruelty just for the sake of it Confused

It is both nature & nurture, but the goal of nurture should be to channel negative nature to positive expression:

killing - shoichet, etc

Motek, what;s your opinion?

↑ Tefila ↓

Tue, Feb 22 2005, 9:36 pm

Then how come a child is viewed as 'an innocent one free from sin', and can raise 'G-D's mercy quicker then adults'.
And the children are our 'guarantors that the Torah would be kept'. Also it says when a 'child dies they are looked upon as a pure neshama Confused

↑ ForeverYoung ↓
Guest

Tue, Feb 22 2005, 9:55 pm

don't ask me........ Confused

↑ Motek ↓

Wed, Feb 23 2005, 7:06 pm

because children are not "pure yetzer hara"

although the yetzer tov comes later, their neshama is present! They just learned Torah with the angel in utero!

Chazal say the world only exists in the merit of hevel pihem shel tinokos shel beis rabbon! ... - the breath of the schoolchildren!

I heard two stories recently.

Story #1 - someone told me that her daughter is quite upset, to the point of tears, because her class (going against school policy) is planning "Purim shtik" that will bother the teacher.

Story #2 - my mother told me that she admired someone's sneakers and the woman said that she couldn't get a pair like them for her daughter because the daughter's classmates would make fun of her because they're from Payless, and not a name brand. My mother was IRATE about this, I.e. how could her classmates say that?!

so I brought these stories up at the Shabbos table and asked: what's the bottom line? are kids born sensitive to others or cruel? is it their upbringing?

we concluded that some children are born with kind natures

and that children who mock others are not being properly educated at home

↑ ForeverYoung ↓
Guest

Wed, Feb 23 2005, 8:24 pm

Quote:

children who mock others are not being properly educated at home

there is a rebbishe, respected family I knoe of, whose boys are monsters untill bar mitzvah.

At 13 somebody turns the switch, and they become angels

↑ Motek ↓

Wed, Feb 23 2005, 9:12 pm

monsters as in vilde chayos (wild), or monsters as in hurtful to other people

↑ ForeverYoung ↓
Guest

Wed, Feb 23 2005, 9:23 pm

wild as in throwing kids down the stairs
(the kids they like they would throw onto a pile of coats or knapsacks)

--------------

or another family, where 1 kid spilled all the seforim out & mother, while picking them up said: Taty will come home & punish you, the other kid asked: "can I help" the mother could believe that one of her kids was actually going to help her with something and said yes, sure.

well, the reply was: "No, not you. Help Tatty punish him!"

All are beautiful teenagers now......... B'H, BA'H

↑ Tefila ↓

Wed, Feb 23 2005, 10:19 pm

Quote:

wild as in throwing kids down the stairs
(the kids they like they would throw onto a pile of coats or knapsacks)

Fy that can't be a normal situation yes wild as in sillyness but not in cruelty shock

↑ ForeverYoung ↓
Guest

Wed, Feb 23 2005, 10:52 pm

so far all grew up to be tzadikim.............

↑ Tefila ↓

Wed, Feb 23 2005, 11:50 pm

Good to hear that!

↑ Motek ↓

Thu, Feb 24 2005, 12:22 pm

I wonder, when parents hear (as I do) that their children did cruel things, whether to the teacher or to other children, are they mortified? do they care? or did they do the same thing when they were younger and think "kids are kids" Confused

I can tell you, that when it comes to shidduchim, I want to know - was he/she kind or cruel as a child? (yet another thing to add to the list!)

not that I thought to ask my husband, but it turns out, he said once, his teacher was punishing a boy to the point that my husband couldn't take it anymore and he intervened (!) and the teacher chased after him instead!

gryp

Thu, Feb 24 2005, 12:34 pm

chased? the teacher was chasing the students? Confused

↑ ForeverYoung ↓
Guest

Thu, Feb 24 2005, 12:41 pm

is hitting the sibling & crying so that he gets punished cruelty?
(age - 2 yrs)

↑ Tefila ↓

Thu, Feb 24 2005, 1:42 pm

2 yrs may have 101 reasons why they do it! Still has to be dealt with though.
And yes it could be classified as cruelty in a milder sense. I think Wink

↑ ForeverYoung ↓
Guest

Thu, Feb 24 2005, 2:59 pm

child hitting an equal b/ he wants a toy?
what about a weaker/smaller one - up untill what ageis it not cruelty?

↑ Tefila ↓

Thu, Feb 24 2005, 3:07 pm

Ok get your point Wink

Maybe then it is more nurture then nature, with diff kids !! Wink

↑ ForeverYoung ↓
Guest

Thu, Feb 24 2005, 3:31 pm

Actually, my point was in responce to:

Quote:

I can tell you, that when it comes to shidduchim, I want to know - was he/she kind or cruel as a child?

B4 asking this question, 1 has to define cruelty.

Unless the child was especially wild/ cruel/ whatever you call it nobod wil remember

Children have hard time controlling/ expressing their emotions & feelings, so some actions which seem to be cruel are really desparate..........

↑ Motek ↓

Fri, Feb 25 2005, 10:49 am

that's true, but yes, you can see in even very young children, that some are more gentle, and they do not hit unless hit by some other child or had something taken from them

and yes, there's a big difference between a cruel 5 or 8 or 10 year old, and a 2 yr. old, and I put this thread in School Age Children and the examples I gave were of school age children

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